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Children's Fiction
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Author:  Seer of Endor [ August 17th, 2010, 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Children's Fiction
Hello,
Just wondered if there was anyone around who's ever thought about writing fiction for kids. By that I mean like chapter book level or higher, not picture book level (though I definitely think we need more picture book authors who are Christians as well). If you think about it, many of the currently popular fantasy series at the moment are geared towards kids. There are some really good books and series out there written for children while it seems that many Christian fantasy books are geared more towards teens or pre-teens at the very youngest. Just wondering if anyone around here likes writing stories for the pre-teens and under reading levels, be they fantasy or not.
In Christ,
Jordan
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ August 17th, 2010, 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
What age range exactly are you talking about? Under 10? 8-12? I thought those secular fantasy books you named were in the preteen and up age range.

Perhaps no one wants to compete with Narnia for the under-10 range; or because it's so hard for children to distinguish between fiction and fantasy when they're 6-10 that no one wants to take the risk anymore.




And I'm always complaining I can't find fantasy books fit for teens/adults... ;) (I have to skip the ones with gross details which is pretty much all I've found in the adult range...)
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ August 17th, 2010, 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
I write picture books. It's fun. :D I never thought of writing for a lower reading level. It probably pretty tricky. Probably the best way to do that would be to stick with fairy tale type material. Either retellings or original tales but still very, "Once upon a time."
Author:  Neil of Erk [ August 18th, 2010, 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Melody Kondrael wrote:
What age range exactly are you talking about? Under 10? 8-12? I thought those secular fantasy books you named were in the preteen and up age range.


Well, despite the, um, graphic nature of His Dark Materials, it's pretty much aimed only at the preteen audience.

My brother is writing a fantasy series aimed at preteens, but I think his style is a bit to old fashioned. It's more like the Hobbit stylistically.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ August 18th, 2010, 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Melody, I edited the list out of the original post. As far as age range, I went loosely with pre-teen and under(7 or 8), but a better guideline is chapter book level and up. Think Boxcar Children and Magic Treehouse on the lowest end of the spectrum and work your way up to novel. I'm interested in anyone writing anywhere in that range. Also, despite the age of the characters, Percy Jackson and the Olympians series was definitely written for younger than teens.

Neil, I happen to think Hobbit-style and Narnia-style fantasy to be very conducive for younger audience despite of how out-dated it may seem.

Janin, I think younger readers can handle non-"once upon a time" fantasy fairly well. Look at the Magic Treehouse series (my sister read through several of them at age 8 or so) or The Sword in the Stone. There are also books like the Spiderwick Chronicles and Stories from the Edge (think that's the title) series that are written for preteens and younger that seem to be working fairly well. *Note: Haven't read either of these series so this IS NOT an endorsement* I'm more than confident that there are young readers out there who could handle well-written Christian fantasy. However, my original question was if there was anyone writing children's fiction period, fantasy or not :) And I think it's cool that you do picture books!

In Christ,
Jordan
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ August 18th, 2010, 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Ah, now I know what you're talking about. I have siblings who read Magic Tree house too. I hate it. Talk about the lamest interpretation of Authurian mythology ever...

That would be an interesting challenge to undertake. Now I'm curious to take up the idea and come up with a plot that would fit into a chapter book.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ August 19th, 2010, 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Don't hate on Magic Treehouse. It wasn't written for you. And I happen to think that as far as kids series go, it's a fairly decent one. But lest we get off topic.
Janin of Yen wrote:
That would be an interesting challenge to undertake. Now I'm curious to take up the idea and come up with a plot that would fit into a chapter book.
You could just as easily take a plot that you've already come up with but aren't using at the moment and rework it into a chapter book story. Though I also like kids books with a little more meat to them as well :) Either way, go for it!
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ August 23rd, 2010, 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Yes, I do think about writing kids' novels. I've written a couple of "Gus plays ball with Sally"-style books for my sisters when they were learning to read. There was always something dramatic to them, though. :D

Just today, I was listening to my 8-year-old sister reading a book to my mom and I thought about how boring it was. It was all telling, no showing and there was absolutely nothing interesting to it from a literary standpoint. Now, don't get me wrong, there are great books for kids out there and I'm not insulting the world of children's literature. I'm now entertaining the idea of writing a fantasy story for children, specifically 7-10 year-olds.

Seer wrote:
Though I also like kids books with a little more meat to them as well :)


Me too. I'd love to read a children's book that has deep characters, a twisty plot and an unpredictable ending.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ August 23rd, 2010, 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
Yes, I do think about writing kids' novels. I've written a couple of "Gus plays ball with Sally"-style books for my sisters when they were learning to read. There was always something dramatic to them, though. :D

Just today, I was listening to my 8-year-old sister reading a book to my mom and I thought about how boring it was. It was all telling, no showing and there was absolutely nothing interesting to it from a literary standpoint. Now, don't get me wrong, there are great books for kids out there and I'm not insulting the world of children's literature. I'm now entertaining the idea of writing a fantasy story for children, specifically 7-10 year-olds.

Seer wrote:
Though I also like kids books with a little more meat to them as well :)


Me too. I'd love to read a children's book that has deep characters, a twisty plot and an unpredictable ending.
Remember the audience, kids that age need more telling than we do. Though I agree that no showing at all is definitely not a good thing.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ August 25th, 2010, 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
I'm currently SORT OF working on a children's fantasy book. for ages 8-12 probably. However, the plot has been getting darker and darker (as seems to happen in all my stories) so despite the way it's written, and the fairly simplistic world building, it will probably be aimed more at tweens and teens now. :(
Author:  Varon [ August 27th, 2010, 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
By Stories from the Edge, I believe you mean the Edge Chronicles by Paul Stewart and Chris Riddel. They are absolutely not meant for kids under pre-teen, they're violent, there's some cussing, it invlolves grisly deaths, and tough topics like the reason people fight for freedom and such. They are awesome.

Back on topic, I'm not going to try right now because when I write, it automaticlly aims at teens.
Author:  Aragorn [ October 16th, 2010, 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
I enjoy writing for all age groups, including children.
Author:  Elly [ November 1st, 2010, 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
I normally try to write for the 10+ range, but sometimes it's 12-14. I have written very basic stories for a seven year old who was still learning to read. ;)
Author:  Celearas [ November 1st, 2010, 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
I've been trying to gather my thoughts on this subject, so here goes....
I don't think you should write with any specific age group in mind. No kid wants to be patronized to, or have nothing to read but fluffy books that don't deal with any important things. One of my favorite writers of all time, JK Rowling (I know HP is a bit of a taboo in certain circles, probably this one included, but bear with me. I'm not going to try and debate with you) is so successful and popular because her books are so very heavy with important issues. Harry Potter could have gone the other way and been a sweet book about a boy who goes to wizard school and makes friends and yay! has a wonderful life, but it's not. It's heavy with death, evil, despair, hugely complex characters, yet is still fun to read. Right now, I believe, about the same number of adults as kids like HP, because Jo didn't really even write for children, she wrote what she would want to read (she was actually a bit surprised when people started slapping it in the children's book section) And I think this is what's important when we write fiction for kids. Kids cannot and will not be kept in a bubble. It's harmful. You can't tell a kid all their life that the world is a lovely happy place, then have them go off to college and see that the world pretty much stinks. And it's impossible to keep kids in bubbles, evil will get hinted at, and they will try and find it out if you don't tell them, but could find out in a harmful way. That's why kids who are sheltered and kept in a padded room all their lives do get into trouble and do bad things. The goal of children's fiction should not be to portray an absence of evil or a toned down evil that's not really evil, just loud, fat comic-book villainy, but rather write evil in such a way that it will enable the kids to know how to respond to the evil when the encounter it. HP shows the characters facing the evil courageously for the greater good, protecting their families and friends. I've learned a ton from "children's" fiction, yet it tends to be the kind of children's fiction that is popular with adults. And you do find that the children's fiction that succeeds is the kind that is popular with adults. Kids understand more than people give them credit for, and want to know what adults know.

That all being said, you don't want to traumatize the kids for life. Jo wrote a 7 book series and had the luxury of going deeper in the evil as she went along, getting the reader ready for a greater evil to come. In one book, it's a bit harder, but you are still able to write a truly evil evil without scenes of grisly torture. It's just harder, you have to find a balance of letting the reader know what is going on without splattering the pages with blood. "He was tortured" doesn't make me feel a thing, but you can still write effective torture without explaining how as he was drawn and quartered the skin slowly ripped, ligaments popped, etc. I personally am not experienced enough to give any further commentary on how to portray evil without scarring the poor reader. Any kindred mind want to help me out here?

Here's the quote which launched a thousand thoughts...
Quote:
Any book that is written down to children, or with one nervous sideways eye on the author's fellow adults, or with the belief that this is the kind of thing they like, cannot work and will not last. Children are not they, they are us. And this is why writing that succeeds with children often succeeds just as well with adults. Not because the latter are infantile or regressive, but because the true dilemmas of childhood are the dilemmas of the whole of life. Those of belonging and betrayal, the power of the group, and the courage it takes to be an individual. Of love, and lost, and learning what is it to be a human being. Let alone a good, brave, or honest one."


You can find the speech this was in if you search "JK Rowling Hans Christian Anderson award," this was in her acceptance speech.

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Want to throw me into a fiery chasm?
Author:  Aragorn [ November 2nd, 2010, 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
I believe that if you write down to children, they will abandon your book when they get older, instead of treasuring it the rest of their lives.
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ November 2nd, 2010, 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Jonathan Garner wrote:
I believe that if you write down to children, they will abandon your book when they get older, instead of treasuring it the rest of their lives.


So are you thinking we should write books that are appropriate and relate at least somewhat to children, but not just "for children"? I personally want my books, even though they may deal with terrible, real-world problems, to be interesting and not too dark for children to read. The children who read our and other stories will be affected by them, and they will be the adults making the world's decisions sooner than it appears.

@ Celearas: I like those thoughts. :) I have another quote to add to the mix, from the "A Note To Parents" section of Andrew Peterson's website for his series The Wingfeather Saga:

Andrew Peterson wrote:
So this is a story about light and goodness and Truth with a capital T. It’s about beauty, and resurrection, and redemption. But for those things to ring true in a child’s heart, the storyteller has to be honest. He has to acknowledge that sometimes when the hall light goes out and the bedroom goes dark, the world is a scary place. He has to nod his head to the presence of all the sadness in the world; children know it’s there from a very young age, and I wonder sometimes if that’s why babies cry. He has to admit that sometimes characters make bad choices, because every child has seen their parent angry or irritable or deceitful–even the best people in our lives are capable of evil.

But of course the storyteller can’t stop there. He has to show in the end there is a Great Good in the world (and beyond it). Sometimes it is necessary to paint the sky black in order to show how beautiful is the prick of light. Gather all the wickedness in the universe into its loudest shriek and God hears it as a squeak at best. And that is a comforting thought. When a child reads the last sentence of my stories, I hope he or she drifts to sleep with a glow in their hearts and a warmth in their bones, believing that all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.
Author:  Celearas [ November 2nd, 2010, 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Awesome! No one's mad at me for bringing up HP!
I think another good thing to work with is books that are layered. Like Sesame Street. They have the puppets, the learning how to count, but then for parents they have famous guests, references to pop culture, etc. I think this can be great in "children's" (I want to ditch that title for a genre altogether) books, when kids are little they see the basic story; a boy in wizard school, kids finding a magical world. But then they get older, and see the depth, the racism of the wizarding world, the messages of Narnia, both Christian and things like the weirdness yet awesomeness of the characters having a Bacchanalia (My vision of Narnia has changed hugely since I first read it. It's kind of insane right now). And, surprise surprise, books that do that are the ones that become classics and that kids grow up with. No kid continues to read "Sally goes to the zoo!" But books that layer are books that keep becoming new, kids realize "Hey! I understand that line now!" "Wow! She was talking about this?! I had no idea!"
Author:  Aragorn [ November 2nd, 2010, 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Shawn Henderson wrote:
So are you thinking we should write books that are appropriate and relate at least somewhat to children, but not just "for children"? I personally want my books, even though they may deal with terrible, real-world problems, to be interesting and not too dark for children to read. The children who read our and other stories will be affected by them, and they will be the adults making the world's decisions sooner than it appears.


That's pretty much what I mean: Books that introduce children to powerful truths without overwhelming them. The truth in the fiction will transcend the age of the readers.
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ November 2nd, 2010, 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Jonathan Garner wrote:
Shawn Henderson wrote:
So are you thinking we should write books that are appropriate and relate at least somewhat to children, but not just "for children"? I personally want my books, even though they may deal with terrible, real-world problems, to be interesting and not too dark for children to read. The children who read our and other stories will be affected by them, and they will be the adults making the world's decisions sooner than it appears.


That's pretty much what I mean: Books that introduce children to powerful truths without overwhelming them. The truth in the fiction will transcend the age of the readers.


Exactly. That's why the Bible is applicable to every age (besides the fact that it's God's Word). Truth resonates.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ November 4th, 2010, 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Children's Fiction
Guess I should pop in the General Discussions room more often. I'd thought this thread was pretty much dead. Good discussion going on here guys (and girls) :)
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