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Explain the Details?
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8436		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ January 16th, 2014, 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Explain the Details?
So I enjoy worldbuilding, and I usually end up with a lot of setting-specific detail in my writing. That's one of the things I love about fantasy.

However, I am not certain whether it is a good idea to try to explain as much of the unusual details as I can, or just let them lie, to give ambiance to the setting without the reader necessarily having an understanding of why and wherefore.

Basically, if a minor-ish character has a rock in his mouth, will readers die of curiosity without any explanation of why he had a rock in his mouth? Or will too much knowing distract the readers from the story?

On a side note, I do realize that injected explanation, exposition stuck in between narration paragraphs to tell the reader 'all about everything', is not a good idea. When I said explanation I meant explanation properly brought out through the story. ;)
Author:  Lady Abigail Mimetes [ January 16th, 2014, 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Mistress Rwebhu Kidh wrote:
So I enjoy worldbuilding, and I usually end up with a lot of setting-specific detail in my writing. That's one of the things I love about fantasy.

However, I am not certain whether it is a good idea to try to explain as much of the unusual details as I can, or just let them lie, to give ambiance to the setting without the reader necessarily having an understanding of why and wherefore.

Basically, if a minor-ish character has a rock in his mouth, will readers die of curiosity without any explanation of why he had a rock in his mouth? Or will too much knowing distract the readers from the story?

On a side note, I do realize that injected explanation, exposition stuck in between narration paragraphs to tell the reader 'all about everything', is not a good idea. When I said explanation I meant explanation properly brought out through the story. ;)

*raises hand* I would die of curiosity. XD if it weren't explained why there was a rock in the guy's mouth, then I think I'd end up writing you and being like, "Hey, what in the blazes is this?" :rofl:
Author:  Lady Heather [ January 16th, 2014, 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
:book: Hmmmm I see your point. When I write, I try to find a balance. This area can be a bit difficult for me. Sometimes I write TOO detailed (thus distracting my readers) and then I don't write enough (making my story too plain) I hope in the novel I am writing im finding that balance.

Sorry I don't think I was much help. :roll:
Author:  kingjon [ March 16th, 2014, 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Explain as much as necessary, but no more, of the details that aren't directly relevant to your story, and as briefly as possible. Every sentence of such description is a sentence that you've taken your reader away from the story. And while there are authors who can do "infodumps" and make them interesting---Heinlein devotes a whole chapter to the construction, care, and use of space suits in Have Spacesuit, Will Travel, and besides being necessary to the plot in the end is absolutely fascinating---it's highly unlikely that you or I will turn out to be one of them. :)
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ March 20th, 2014, 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
It's interesting, I am watching some lectures by Brandon Sanderson, and I think it cleared up a lot of my confusion about this. He didn't give any rules, really, but a lot of guidelines and methods and clarity about pros and cons.

Unfortunately, since he didn't give any fast rules, I now still have to decide exactly what my approach will be, and how I want the book. :P But at least I can make a more informed decision.

One thing that I found quite helpful that he said was that the reader's attention will generally follow the attention of the characters. If a character is very interested in a particular part of your world building, the reader will be more interested in finding out about it. Like, if a character is riding past a hill, and doesn't really notice it in particular or care about it in particular, but the narrative gives a paragraph or five to talking about its history and mythological significance, that's a bit of a drag for the reader usually. Whereas if the characters spend a little while discussing a kind of magic that one of them has spent his life studying because he absolutely loves it (and possibly got banished from his home country because of it? 0.o), then the reader will want to know more about it.

And another thing I thought of, sort of collaborating with what he said: if it's awesome, the reader will listen longer. :D Sort of obvious, but I need to keep it in mind. Like, just because I spent months creating an extensive history doesn't mean there is any point in even mentioning it, unless I mention something out of the ordinary or awesome about it.... 'Cause ordinary and straight out history is typically boring.

Lady Abigail Mimetes wrote:
*raises hand* I would die of curiosity. XD if it weren't explained why there was a rock in the guy's mouth, then I think I'd end up writing you and being like, "Hey, what in the blazes is this?"
* grimace * Aw.... I was hoping I could skip explaining that. XD

kingjon wrote:
Every sentence of such description is a sentence that you've taken your reader away from the story.
I get what you're saying. But... at the same time, the reason a lot of people (like myself) read fantasy is because of the setting and world building, so... how does that work into this?

kingjon wrote:
And while there are authors who can do "infodumps" and make them interesting---Heinlein devotes a whole chapter to the construction, care, and use of space suits in Have Spacesuit, Will Travel, and besides being necessary to the plot in the end is absolutely fascinating---it's highly unlikely that you or I will turn out to be one of them.
Yes. * grimace *
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ March 24th, 2014, 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Is the reason behind the rock a very long one?
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ March 26th, 2014, 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Willow Wenial Mimetes wrote:
Is the reason behind the rock a very long one?
Depends on how much you want to go into. * grimace * But not very long, regardless.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ April 2nd, 2014, 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
*chuckles* Oh, the web we weave. :D

Well, if it wouldn't take long to explain, and it's interesting, and doesn't interrupt the flow of the rest of the scene, why not do it? :)
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ April 3rd, 2014, 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Willow Wenial Mimetes wrote:
Well, if it wouldn't take long to explain, and it's interesting, and doesn't interrupt the flow of the rest of the scene, why not do it?
Because it's not the only one. That's the problem. I could be stopping every two paragraphs explaining things like that. There's heaps. So I have the problem of trying to decide when, where, what, how, and if at all. :/
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ April 4th, 2014, 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Are ALL these heaps of details necessary? (This sounds like QUITE a story. :D)
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ April 5th, 2014, 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
No, none of them are necessary. :D
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ April 10th, 2014, 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Les Miserables did a fantastic job of going into detail, and really making it awesome. He did it through the interest of his character, but man did he ever do it! When Valjean escapes into a convent he writes about convents for an entire book. When Valjean flees through a certain part of Paris he gives the history of the changing appearance of that part of Paris throughout the century.
The first part of the book is a detailed biography of the bishop who saves Valjean at the start, and later only comes in in retrospect.
I love it, actually.
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ April 12th, 2014, 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
:D I don't think very many people do like that much detail, though. If someone was just selling books to you, it'd be fine, but most people I've heard complain about the extreme detail in those portions of it. Except the people who liked it because it made them feel intellectual for having gotten through it. :P
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ April 12th, 2014, 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
It was awesome! It was as well described and narrated as the story parts. I think maybe when people dislike the details in a book like that they should not try to put it in their own books: you have to write what you like.

And if you forced yourself to read it in order to feel intellectual, you would probably force yourself to write it in your stories to feel intellectual, which would not work, of course.
Author:  RedWing the Purple [ April 12th, 2014, 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
It sounds to me like your book is full of a lot of strangeness. :cool:

*takes a moment to consolidate thoughts*

I don't think there's really a right answer to this question. I have come to find that there are very few hard fast rules in fiction. There are guidelines, methods that have proven to work through countless books, but there is no one-size-fits-all.

So my answer is this: It depends.

And since I don't really know much about your book, I can't really give any good advice about what to do in this situation. But I'll do my best. Forgive me if I ramble. :D

So, if I came across a character in your book, a side character (one who I'm assuming doesn't stick around, or at least not much?) with a rock in his mouth, would I want to know why, or would it distract from the story?

It depends. I know, terribly helpful. Let me try to explain

Specifically, I'd say, it depends on three things.

The book, as a whole.
Your characters.
Your audience.

Book: Is this rock character an isolated moment of strangeness? Is the general atmosphere of the book full of such quirks? If it is an isolated moment of strangeness, I'd imagine a reader would be hungry for an explanation. But you said (I think) that it isn't, so I'd say maybe not. I don't think every strange thing that happens in your book, if your going for an atmosphere of oddity, needs to be explained. Maybe even shouldn't be. Some of them probably should be, but not necessarily all of them. Ask yourself if stopping to explain it would be distracting, or add to the interesting flair.

Characters: Are your characters used to such strangeness? Would they stop and wonder about the rock in his mouth, or would it just be part of their every day life? Are they going to wonder or care? Will they remark amongst themselves, or are they going to ask him about it? Do they already know the reason why? If they do, will they stop to consider the reasons in detail or will they just casually give a short explanation? If they aren't conditioned to that environment something like that would have a much more dramatic affect on them. If they grew up with things like that, they may not think twice.

The audience: Probably the most important thing to consider. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most people interested in reading fantasy are interested in learning about other worlds in some way or another. Including all their quirks and eccentricities. But how much you want to include can vary quite a bit. In this book, do you want the reader to be caught up in the world building and taken on a journey that takes them through a strange world? Or would it distract from other areas, such as characters and plot?

Hopefully that at least give some things to think about. That was very long way of saying it depends.

And I think was going to say something else, but I forgot what it was. Oh well. :roll:

I, for the record, would very much like to know why this character has a rock in his mouth. :dieshappy:

Mistress Rwebhu Kidh wrote:

kingjon wrote:
And while there are authors who can do "infodumps" and make them interesting---Heinlein devotes a whole chapter to the construction, care, and use of space suits in Have Spacesuit, Will Travel, and besides being necessary to the plot in the end is absolutely fascinating---it's highly unlikely that you or I will turn out to be one of them.
Yes. * grimace *


Never say never. ;)
Author:  Mistress Kidh [ April 30th, 2014, 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Thankyou very much, Quirk, you really helped me think. You're a lot of right.

I think I am slowly getting a handle on what this book needs. * hopeful *

Quirk wrote:
Mistress Rwebhu Kidh wrote:

kingjon wrote:
And while there are authors who can do "infodumps" and make them interesting---Heinlein devotes a whole chapter to the construction, care, and use of space suits in Have Spacesuit, Will Travel, and besides being necessary to the plot in the end is absolutely fascinating---it's highly unlikely that you or I will turn out to be one of them.
Yes. * grimace *


Never say never. ;)
This is truth. * grins *
Author:  RedWing the Purple [ May 7th, 2014, 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explain the Details?
Oh good. ^_^ I had feared that I was just rambling.
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