One race that's been with me for nearly 12 years is the Apsarans. Basically they are a race of people that have wings in place of arms. I've come up with all sorts of cool cultural tidbits about them, but the one thing I keep stumbling over is their absence of hands. In the past I've come up with three basic solutions, but none of them quite work:

1. They have telekinetic abilities that replace the lack of arms and hands, but no more than that. For instance, they can pick things up that an arm could reach, but they could not levitate objects from afar, and they couldn't pick locks with their minds. Don't really like this one because it feels like a cop out. Clothing is woven out of threads made from feather-fibers, and weapons/armor are made out of bird bones (which do their hollowness do not weigh enough to complicate flight).

2. They have bird-like or ape-like prehensile feet that would serve as hands. Not crazy about this one. It just doesn't sit well, but it's one possibility that I've toyed with in the past. In this case, Apsarans don't wear clothing, but have feathers that grow down their torsos that cover everything that modesty dictates be covered, basically everything above the legs. Houses are human-sized nests covered by large branches and leaves. Not sure how food would be cooked.

3. My least favorite of all, they have hands connected to the metacarpals of their wings. Outsiders don't see these hands because their hard to see when Apsarans are in flight, thus the rumors of Apsarans not having hands was founded. Like I said, don't like this idea.

So, as you can see, I'm a bit stuck. Things like clothing, would be near impossible without hands. Which means my cool idea of cloth made from feather-fibers wouldn't work. Other things like housing and food could be procured without hands per se, but would require some sort of gripping abilities. Birds build nests using mainly their beaks and their feet, but I refuse to make my humanoid Apsarans carry sticks and such in their mouths. It's not going to happen. So...any ideas, suggestions? I suppose the fact that I have no idea what world Apsarans live in means that it's not a major issue, but I would gladly appreciate help on this. To boil it down into one sentence:
What would a culture look like for a race with wings in place of arms and hands?

In Christ,
Jordan

Without fine manipulators you would have to give up many things that define humanoid culture; basically, you need hands to build, make clothing, use tools, have many of the social interactions that we take for granted, etc. You can do without some of these, but not all. If you are going to take away their hands, you should give them some way to compensate. I think the best solution that you have is telekinesis, and I don't think you should limit it extremely. Some races have inborn advantages over others, and I think that telekinesis in a range of five or ten feet is perfectly acceptable as a replacement for hands; it wouldn't overpower them in my opinion, but I really don't have much else to offer. An advanced society is not possible (or at least very improbable) without hands.

I reached a similar conclusion years ago, but the obstinate side of me refuses to accept it. I'm convinced that there has to be a way to make it work.

To me telekinesis is too easy an answer. "How do you do anything without hands?" "Oh, I move things with my mind, so it's really no big deal." I'm determined to find a way to work this out apart from my earlier solutions, which I just don't like. It may mean that I have to give in and let my humanoids use their mouths for somethings, but that wouldn't be the worst of fates.

I think it'd acually be cool if they didn't have any gripping ability. I don't really see the point of you taking away their hands if you're just going to give them a substitution. Why not explore the society without hands, why not have fun with it? They'd need to do alot of treade, they might need to hire help for building things. Or why do they need to build things? If they're birdlike, why not make them sleep in trees? See, you don't want humans with wings. You want to create a whole new culture, and I think it'd be a really fun thing to explore. Why do they need to be advanced? Why can't they be a more simple people, who get pleasure in soaring above the clouds instead of having fancy things? I know I am totally ignorant about your story, but I just don't see the fun in having humanoids with wings. Give and take, take their gripping ability, give them wings.

Technically, there is no story to be ignorant about
I'll see if I can better portray the situation. It began with an image that came to my head when I was about 8-yo, of a figure with a human body and wings instead of arms. I think he was the "Spirit of the Silver Eagle" or something like that. At that age, with little knowledge of anatomy and heavy Winnie-the-Pooh influences, wings were something that you could grab and hold things with. Somewhere down the road, I came up with the idea of a whole people like Spirit who lived in a world on the other side of a black hole. And then sometime during my late teens (roughly 5 yrs ago or so) I tried to adapt this idea into a fantasy race. At the time, I didn't give much thought to the lack of hands because I was fixated on the physiology of flight and the fact that, even with wings, it would take a lot for people to be able to fly(soaring on thermals would be about the only way they could fly for long periods of time without growing weary, short-distance flapping would be impractical because it would take a good amount of flapping to get them airborne).

That's when I decided that the Apsarans have hollow bones like birds and that their clothes were made out of feather-fibers spun into thread. They do this by soaking downy feathers in a solution of water mixed with ground acorn powder for two days(no chemical legitimacy here, it just sounded cool) then using a pestle to mash the solution up until all that's left is a wet fibrous mass similar to a wet wad of wool, from there the fibers are dried off and then spun into thread just like wool. It was while working on this process that I realized the near impossibility of this without hands.

I picture them living in human-sized nests in forest canopies...until I started thinking about how hard it would be for them to navigate through all the branches. Unlike most birds, their human-like size makes branch dodging next to impossible. Some of my solutions to this are that their nests are built in tree branches and the canopies above the nests are pruned away so that they can fly in, or have them nest along cliffs like golden eagles. I had trouble explaining why a race with human intelligence would live in forests if it would be near impossible to fly through them (they'd have to either walk or fly above the treetops, which impairs vision and nullifies the point of traveling around in a forest). I think some live in mountains like condors of South America (which have 6' wingspans and need the "elbow room") and others live in the open fields building grass-nests like most grassland birds (maybe some adobe housing, but probably not).

As you can see, housing would be fine if they had gripping feet like most birds and could carry nesting materials to their building sites (though it would either take several of them carrying larger materials like branches, if that's even possible, or a very long nest-building process trying to make large enough nests out of smaller/lighter materials). But my favorite part, the clothing, couldn't be done without hands. Also, cooking food would be a bit tricky unless their feet could grip well enough to strike flint (and my human toes could probably do that with enough practice so it's not much of a stretch). But I think I just found a solution to that.

Apsarans purchase as needed (when no other Apsaran village is around to borrow fire from) torches from fingered outsiders, use the torches to kindle large communal fires (these would be kept in caves for the mountain-dwellers and probably in tents for plains-dwellers) which become the responsibilities of the Fire Keepers to keep from burning out or being extinguished by the weather (similar to the Vestal Virgins of ancient Rome). The loss of the fire is a serious affair in an Apsaran village.

At this point...I'm inclined to giving them some sort of gripping abilities. If you think about it, In The Lion's Paw, even birds have feet that can grab and bills/beaks that function as tools (nutcrackers, spoons, drills, tweezers, chisels, etc). I'm thinking semi-prehensile feet that would be used similar to a bird's feet to carry things (though they would look more like ape-feet). Doesn't address how they make clothing or weapons, or the like, but I'll work on that. Modest feathers is still a possibility, but I'm still in love with my feather-cloth idea. Your idea of trade would be good except that I have them in my mind as a semi-isolated race.

I guess it would help to mention that I get a very Native American essence for their culture. My descriptions thus far probably haven't communicated that too well.

Oh! Another element that I forgot to mention. As humans, they use domesticated birds much in the same way that humans use sheep, cows, horses, etc. Some are raised for food, others are raised for their feathers, others as work-birds, others for their bones (vultures are raised as bone birds because of their size, do to their rather unclean nature, their feathers aren't used for clothing, and their meat is used to feed the other vultures because Apsarans won't eat it and won't waste it), and some for other reasons. I also see them raising small game like rabbits for food. (Apsaran butchery is probably even less pretty than human butchery).

Sorry that this is so long. Keep the ideas coming, yall have been a big help. Without your comments, I probably wouldn't have thought my way through as much as I have.

In Christ,
Jordan

I think it would be interesting if you gave them semi ape-like feet and that was their main gripping appendage. It would mean that they were more primitive, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. You could also have them be very smart, and sort of balance out their physical problems with a highly developed mind, they could even use higher math and science to make machines and such to compensate for their lack of hands. Just another random thought.

Their feet look ape-like but function more like bird feet = balance and gripping. I disagree that it would make them more primitive. I think if I wanted them to, they could be just as advanced as "we" are. However, because of the Native American essence I associate with them, my initial inclination is to keep things somewhat low-tech. Hence their living in nests and tending "sacred" fires.

Fair enough.

Ohhhhhhhhh, interesting! I is itrigued! Erm, okay, I have really no advice just.....keep writing! Sounds unique, and I like the thought you've put into this culture!