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Of Bows and Arrows
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Author:  Aris Hunter [ July 14th, 2010, 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Of Bows and Arrows
These questions are for my own curiosity. I don't know much about bows and arrows, I figured learning more about them would be a good idea.

What kind of wood makes a good bow and its arrows? Why? What wood works best? What are other kinds of wood that would also work?

What kind of string works best? What are other kinds (if any) that would also work?

Could there be different shapes and sizes of arrow heads? Or different material? What kinds of feathers for fletching works well for arrows? Why do arrows need them at all?
Dragon Egg
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 14th, 2010, 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I can answer a couple of your questions. A good wood for bows is yew. This is because it is springy, so other springy woods work also. Fletching is necessary to balance the arrows and make them fly straight. Also there can be and are many different sizes and shapes of arrowheads, most are made from metal but older techs could use stone. Some arrows are simply sharp on their own and do not need a tip. Arrows do not need to be made of wood, modern arrows are typically made from fiberglass and there are many possible alternatives in a fantasy setting. Hope that helps. :D
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 14th, 2010, 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
English longbows are made of yew. The reason the English developed long bows was because yew did not make good self-bows. (bows made from one piece of wood.)
American Indians developed the recurve. Recurve bows are shorter, but still just a powerful as a long bow. They made them from woods like oak and hickory. With a self bow the draw weight varies depending on the length. The type of bow Robin Hood carried, (English Yew longbow, typical of archers of that day,) would have been taller than he was with about a 110 to 140# draw weight. One of the legends tells about a shot he made that was nearly a mile... you can imagine the kind of bow that would be powerful enough to kill at that range. With a recurve it's a S shape, the ends bend back so they are much more powerful with a lot less length. They are also much harder to make.

Arrows must be straight to fly straight. So anything light and straight will work. The length of the arrow varies on the length of the bow. 30" is pretty standard. If you simply sharpen the tips and harden them your arrows won't penetrate anything very thick. Stone works, (the Indians used it,) but if you want to kill a guy wearing chain mail you'll need something very hard and very, very sharp.

Feathers make the arrows fly straight. I don't know why. As far as I know, any kind of feather is good. Robin Hood supposedly used peacock feathers. Different archers often use different cresting, either in feather colors or how they paint their arrows. All I know about fletching is that you want to use either all right wing feathers or all left wing feathers on a single arrow. If you mix left wing and right wing it causes problems.

I don't know much about string except it's usually waxed to give it extra strength. My bow string is actually about a dozen smaller strands. They're not braided together, just wrapped at the ends to ensure they're all one length. I know that the Indians considered snake skin a superior material for string. I'm almost certain that at one point animal gut was used. (Hm... harp strings and bow strings can be made from the same material? That's interesting...) You can also make very good bowstring out of bark. I had a friend who showed me how. You strip the bark from a living sapling into thin strips and soak it in water for some time... I can't remember how long... until the sap leaks out and makes it all sticky. Then you spin it together. The sap holds it together like glue. You have to keep it under tension until it dries; when it becomes bound almost as well as the bark before it was cut.
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ July 14th, 2010, 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Wow...great information to be had here. I just gave one of my MCs a bow and was about to start a topic like this since I know NOTHING about bows and arrows or anything...but I wanted to make it realistic :) Janin, you're very well read on a lot of subjects. :) Thanks y'all for the good info...I look forward to applying this into my writing.

eruheran
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 15th, 2010, 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Eruheran, I thank you. Many topics is my specialty.

Now, if only I could shoot a bow as well as I could talk about it...
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ July 15th, 2010, 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
You're probably doing better than I am...never shot a bow in my life. (Actually, I believe you shoot an arrow not a bow. ;) ). But hopefully using some of this information I can talk about it in my book semi-knowledgeably. :D

I just have one question. Can the heads of an arrow weigh less or more depending on how much you want the arrow to fly? I mean, do the weights of the heads affect the flight? What about the arrows.

eruheran
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 15th, 2010, 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Wow, Janin, I concede that you know far more than me about bows and arrows. I'm glad that you didn't have to contradict anything that I said completely, that means there is still hope for me. :D
Author:  Varon [ July 15th, 2010, 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Yes, the weight of an arrowhead affects how the arrow flies. A heavy arrowhead would make the arrow drop because of all the weight.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 15th, 2010, 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
The weight of the arrowhead probably corresponds with the weight of the arrow. I mentioned before that arrows had to be light, but this isn't strictly true. The lightest arrows, (like the ones I practice with,) will fly really fast but they won't strike with very much impact. A heavier weight arrow will be much more powerful, and you can put heavier arrowhead on it!
Author:  Celestria [ July 15th, 2010, 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I would also like to add that much of this information can be changed in the writer's world. This is a fantasy forum after all. You may have a kind of wood in your world that is perfect for making a bow. Depending on the land you may use different kinds of rocks or irons. And even when it comes it feathers, a farmer may use goose or turkey feathers while people of the higher class could have their feathers painted to bear their countries colors.

But I would tend to agree that the most important thing is that the arrow is light and straight. (I know what it's like trying to shoot a bent arrow. :shock:)

I like recurve bows the best because of their power over the long bows. But out of curiosity, has anyone ever thought of using crossbows in their stories?
Author:  Varon [ July 15th, 2010, 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I have, but decided against it. I don't know why though. Have you?
Author:  Lady Terra [ July 15th, 2010, 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Wow! I was just about to ask this question. Great minds think alike, Zoey! And now I'm getting all this information!! Thanks everyone, my Hunters will actually have a weapon now :D
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 15th, 2010, 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Cross bows are... well, maybe I shouldn't say that. I'm rather prejudiced against crossbows. For one, they're very awkward to draw. While you're busy drawing the string back, someone could pick you off with no trouble since your attention is completely diverted. They are not accurate and they can't shoot very long distances. They're also more dangerous to the archer, though I forget why.

Other random information: A crossbow shoot bolts, not arrows. They're shorter and heavier. You draw it by putting the bow on the ground, holding it down with your foot, and pulling the string back to lock it behind the trigger. I think it also has a heavier draw weight since, like a compound, you don't have to hold it. It's held mechanically.
Author:  Aris Hunter [ July 15th, 2010, 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
My knowledge of bows and arrows has jumped from practically nothing to a lot. Makes me want to try to shoot.

So, yew's the way to go for a bow. What are other springy wood? (woods, wood, whichever is proper grammar)

I haven't put crossbows in any stories, Celestria. But now that I think about it, I might. ;)

Maybe I'm not quite understanding recurve bows. What do they look like? They sound really cool.

Lady Terra: You betcha. ;)

Janin: Crossbows sound more complicated than I thought. But, with all its disadvantages, isn't it faster? I mean, the speed the bolt flies at?
Author:  Varon [ July 15th, 2010, 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Yes, and that's why they can puncture armor.

Recurve bow:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rec ... /tfx-2.jpg
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 16th, 2010, 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Crossbows have their place, but they are not nearly as useful in open battle as a recurve or longbow. They would be much more useful in a siege situation where the archer can be concealed and protected by the wall when he is drawing the string back, because then the extra range and ability to puncture armor is not outweighed by the risk of being picked off. Recurve bows are curved one way without the string, then when you string it you bend it the other way so the wood's tendency to spring back into its original position gives it extra tension (I don't know if that's the right phraseology, but that's what happens :D).
Author:  Ciela Rose [ July 16th, 2010, 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I love archery! :D

When I think of weaponry like this, I also think cobha. Crossbows might be large and unwieldy, but they might be easier to use in a different world (or by a different person ;) ). One of my characters uses a rapid-fire crossbow very effectively.

Does anyone know anything about scatter-shot arrows (or whatever they're called)? I have a weapon which fires like an arrow, but then it splits in mid-air into hundreds of smaller, deadlier shards. If you guys have any tips or thoughts for such things, I'd be much obliged. (although, this might need another thread).

I thought recurve bows came from the Hun archers used against the Romans?
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 17th, 2010, 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
That's very interesting. Something makes me think that someone had developed arrowheads that would explode but that's probably not historical. :D

Of course Derek, from Swan Princess, could fire as many as six arrows at a time- from an ordinary bow! -and be accurate on all of them. :) There are a lot of different things you can do if you don't mind breaking the rules.
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 17th, 2010, 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Ciela Rose wrote:
I have a weapon which fires like an arrow, but then it splits in mid-air into hundreds of smaller, deadlier shards.
A scattershot arrow like you described could only be explained by ridiculously effective and tiny machinery or magic, depending on what your world is like, either or both of those could work.
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ July 17th, 2010, 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
The shards-arrow...sounds very interesting. Maybe I could have the 'bad' country in my book use some of those. If you're all right with that, of course, Ms. Creator? :D If not, that's fine, I'll think of something else.

eruheran
Author:  Calenmiriel [ July 19th, 2010, 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I had archery lessons for two years back when I was 11-12ish. I don't know a huge amount of information on the bow and arrow itself, but I know how to use them. Here's a video that compares the long bow to the cross bow. ^^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HagCuGXJgUs

Here is some good information on the bow shape. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_shape

By the way, the feathers on the arrow shaft are called fletching. :)

One thing that makes a writers writings more realistic and authentic is if you do research. Libraries are an excellent source of information as well as the internet. I wrote a short story based in the 1800's and once I'm done as a staff member this August I'll start writing on it again. The bugger is, I don't know too much about the 1800's Victorian age, therefore, I have to do a LOT of research on etiquette, clothing, land ownership, , history, and the basic lifestyle back then. It makes the book more authentic even if I hardly get any writing in for now. :P

I hope this was helpful to you. :D :D :D
Author:  Aris Hunter [ July 19th, 2010, 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Is a recurve bow the same shape as a horn bow? The picture Varon posted is kind of what I've pictured horn bows to look like.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 19th, 2010, 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I have never heard of a horn bow...
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 19th, 2010, 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
As far as I know, horn bows are just recurve bows made from horns instead of wood...
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ July 20th, 2010, 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Did we just get a new forum specifically for technology?

(Or am I imagining things...) :D
Author:  Varon [ July 20th, 2010, 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I think we did, unless we've always had this.
Author:  Aris Hunter [ July 20th, 2010, 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Really? How do you make a bow of a horn without it snapping?
Author:  Varon [ July 20th, 2010, 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I'd have to look that up, but generally they were smaller bows.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ July 20th, 2010, 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Janin of Yen wrote:
Did we just get a new forum specifically for technology?

(Or am I imagining things...) :D
haha! Yes the technology forum is new. So start posting in it :D
Author:  Varon [ July 20th, 2010, 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Horn bows are generally shorter and made of small pieces of horn glued togethor.
Author:  Aris Hunter [ July 21st, 2010, 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
That's interesting. I had asked because in the book Dandelion Fire (N.D. Wilson), one of the characters had a horn bow, and I remember him saying something like it was made from yew? I could be wrong, though.
Author:  Varon [ July 21st, 2010, 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Really? That doesn't make much sense, unless I have the definition of a horn bow wrong. I guess that comes from writing more adventure, thriller, sci-fi, and war stories than fantasy.
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 21st, 2010, 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I don't think horn bows are made from whole horns. I believe that they are made from thinner strips of horn glued together like Varon said. Since horn is firmer than wood, you can get the same amount of power from a smaller bow.
Author:  Manda Kondrael [ July 24th, 2010, 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Hmmm, interesting information about bows in this thread. I've always been very interested in archery, and have begged my uncle (who has a compound bow and a long bow (I think that's what it is, maybe not...)) on multiple occasions to let me at least play with his bows. (Not like I can really pull them back, last I checked at least, but it is fun. :) )


A random note on crossbows: There are devices used to pull back the string. Some attach to the stirrup, if the archer is on a horse, or to the archer's foot or something like that. They're winch like things, and aide greatly in the pulling back of the string. (I heard someplace it took at least three strong men to pull it back otherwise?) It's been a while since I read my costume book (which is where I got this information, it even had a technical drawing of a crossbow!) so I may be wrong about most of this..
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ October 2nd, 2010, 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
There is actually a special arrow tip made for piercing armor. Arrows fitted with it are called Bodkin arrows. They are large and heavy, so they need a powerful bow.

An excellent string is animal sinew, strange as it sounds. You would tear it into strips, as you would with any string material, and lay it in paste, before twisting it together. It almost never breaks.

I do have crossbows in my story. I also have a much smaller version that assassins use called a quarrelbow.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ October 2nd, 2010, 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Lawhead's King Raven Trilogy goes into great detail on how to make a bow and arrows. It's really good. The first book (Hood) is the one that has the description in it.
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ October 2nd, 2010, 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I really need to read up on bows and arrows because one of my MCs uses exclusively that weapon. The horn bow sounds very interesting...as does the recurve bow (which I first heard of in the Ranger's Apprentice series, which is not bad by the way)...definitely going to have to research that when (or if) I get time.

eruheran
Author:  Varon [ October 4th, 2010, 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
A horn bow is a bow made of horn. A recurve bow is a little harder to explain.
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ October 4th, 2010, 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
For picturing a recurve bow, picture first a regular longbow. Shorten it and curve the ends away from the wielder and that's about what it looks like. It gives more power because of the shape.
Author:  Varon [ October 4th, 2010, 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Yeah.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ October 15th, 2010, 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Well, I thought I'd better come over here and impart some information.

I lose arrows like crazy. I've been told that this is actually normal. But that aside, about July I ran out of arrows so I quit practicing. By the time I got new arrows I had lost my bow string. (Yes, my bowstring. Just... don't ask.) By the time I got my new bow string I hadn't practiced in a while. Well, I'm catching up pretty fast, and learning some new improvements to my technique and a lot of things the hard (and painful) way.

Ever wondered why archers wore armguards? I don't have an armguard, so I didn't bother with it, and I figured (like the scratches on my hand from the feathers,) that the string was just hitting my arm because I wasn't holding it right. I was wrong. I've got the bruise to prove it too. :D

So random practical information. Dumping it here for you. :D
Author:  Varon [ October 19th, 2010, 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
I know why they wear armguards. It can hurt.
Author:  Celestria [ October 19th, 2010, 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Ah... yes! Very painful. My dad and I understand that all too well. We've had plenty of experience during our archery tournaments.
Author:  Ciela Rose [ October 19th, 2010, 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Sometimes not even armguards help. If a bowstring is really released wrong, it can snap under your armguard. It HURTS!
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ October 19th, 2010, 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Like any other sport, archery has its liabilities, even if you are using the right equipment and protective gear. My Daddy received quite the impressive injury due to his compound bow string snapping. It happens, but these precautions do help reduce the risk of injury.
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ October 19th, 2010, 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Varon wrote:
I know why they wear armguards. It can hurt.


Goodness, yes. And I've only shot a youth compound bow.
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 29th, 2010, 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Airianna Valenshia wrote:
Lawhead's King Raven Trilogy goes into great detail on how to make a bow and arrows. It's really good. The first book (Hood) is the one that has the description in it.
I have that book :) I've read through the part where his bow is being made, but I haven't had the time to pick it up lately to finish reading. The bow making process is pretty cool in the book.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ October 29th, 2010, 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Yep! However, the books are slow and hard to get into. They are interesting though.
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 29th, 2010, 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Of Bows and Arrows
Airianna Valenshia wrote:
Yep! However, the books are slow and hard to get into. They are interesting though.
very true, and because of such, I'm afraid I'm going to have to start reading all over again from the beginning. Otherwise, I'll probably be lost. Really cool bow stuff though.
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