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Is There A Doctor In The House?
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6407		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jay Lakewood [ June 1st, 2012, 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Is There A Doctor In The House?
Injuries! What character is any good without getting stabbed, poisoned, or smashed at some point in their poor little lives? :roll:

I noticed we have a thread on how easy it is to kill someone, but not on how an injury affects the injured. So if there's people who know about this sort of thing, please enter!

While I'm here, I'll ask a question. How bad is a spear in someone's shoulder?
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ June 1st, 2012, 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
A spear in someone's shoulder can have differing repercussions depending on the medical technology they have access to. :)

You might also check out "The Science of Death" thread. :)

Are we discussing psychological effects of injuries as well?
Author:  Jay Lakewood [ June 1st, 2012, 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
Any effects an injury will have on a person, so yes.
:)
Author:  Roager the Ogre [ June 1st, 2012, 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
I'm no doctor, but it really depends on where the spear hits, the angle, and how deep it goes to determine the type of injury.

The symptoms depend on either real life or Hollywood. In Hollywood, gun shots, stabs, all of it doesn't seem to cause too much trouble. Characters hold their arm or it's disabled for a bit, but they bounce back after it's healed or seem to shrug it off. A wound to the shoulder looks "tough" and survivable in Hollywood, which is the reason why we see it so often, when in fact a shoulder wound can be one of the worst places to get injured.

*Side note: Pain during the incident will vary on both extremes. Adrenaline is amazing. There are many, many, many incidents of humans receiving incredible injuries that should have brought them to their knees, but instead they soldiered on like nothing happened or even realizing how badly they've been injured. Mindset also plays a huge role. However, a spear in the shoulder will still cause lack of movement because now there is something physically preventing the shoulder from working..

1. The shoulder is a very complex structure of the body. Lots of variables to take into account. There are major veins, arteries, tendons, and nerves located in the shoulder. If a wound is deep enough and an artery or vein is severed, your character will bleed out and die without medical attention.

2. There are a lot of nerve bundles in the shoulder and along the arm. Damage to them can cause loss of feeling for not only the arm but also the hand as well. Severe pain can occur. Loss of strength, mobility, unable to raise arm beyond waist. Weakness in hand or arm can occur. Numbness in hand or arm as well.

3. Damage to the ball joint of the shoulder will result in significant impairment. Damage to this joint will more than likely result in permanent damage, depending on medical technology. Limited mobility, severe pain, and weakness will continue even after healing. Everything below the elbow should work as normal but you still will not be able to lift anything.

4. Sometimes it can be "just a flesh wound." Weakness and pain is still expected during the injury. Stiffness and swelling as well. If the bone structure, tendons, and nerves are left undamaged then it is very possible to make a full recovery. Some side effects may include tenderness or stiffness and soreness and swelling may occur when overusing the shoulder.

5. Psychological effects are mostly dependent on you character and their life situation. If s/he values their own physical prowess, is dependent on their body to be working 100 percent for their job, a warrior, then having that arm become disabled can be devastating. They are now a liability on the battlefield if they are even allowed to fight again, their skill has become diminished, and they will never be the same as they were in their prime.

Look at athletes after experiencing career ending injuries or injured soldiers from current wars or from history. Some fall into depression and others work past it. It all depends on your character.
Author:  NotThatShort [ June 8th, 2012, 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
:rofl: This title grabbed my attention.
I am certified in first aid, CPR, and AED for adults, infants, and children, and I aim to be a paramedic "when I grow up", so I should be able to answer a lot of questions. I find myself to be quite knowledgeable about medical issues, injuries and treatments especially.
Also, I have the nickname "Doctor", because my friend dislocated her shoulder, I went and popped it right back in, to the awe of all my friends. :rofl:
Roager, you are quite correct about both the physical and mental aspects of injury.
Might I suggest this thread, and its cousins? viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5876&hilit=+when+characters+suffer
These might answer a couple questions, although the stories people tell are not for the squeamish. I am among the most graphic posters. :rofl:
I'll be watching this thread. ;) If anyone has any questions, I'm sure Roager and I can answer them. *high-fives Ogre*
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ June 9th, 2012, 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
Jay has/had a thread very similar to this, but I'm not sure if I should merge them. *summons fellow Mod Nemo*

I thought I might repost a question I asked on his thread that he didn't get to answer before he was arrested - feel free to answer, anyone.

Quote:
What would you say about a bad leg wound? (Left thigh, fairly high up on the outside of the leg, not near the artery, clean cut nearly to the bone) Would he lose a lot of blood? What if he had to walk on it, unbound? Is it a likely candidate for infection if he's in an environment with lots of people and dust? It's also very warm and he's got a sunburn and is dehydrated; would that affect it? Would it seal up or keep bleeding?

Before you ask, it's later magically healed, and he was taken prisoner on a forced march. :roll:
Author:  Roager the Ogre [ June 10th, 2012, 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
*high-fives NotThatShort back*

Quote:
What would you say about a bad leg wound? (Left thigh, fairly high up on the outside of the leg, not near the artery, clean cut nearly to the bone) Would he lose a lot of blood? What if he had to walk on it, unbound? Is it a likely candidate for infection if he's in an environment with lots of people and dust? It's also very warm and he's got a sunburn and is dehydrated; would that affect it? Would it seal up or keep bleeding?

Before you ask, it's later magically healed, and he was taken prisoner on a forced march.

*The following is based off the assumption that the bone is not damaged*

The only bone in the thigh is the femur and it is surround by thick muscle and fat. Any cut that reaches all the way to the femur is extremely deep. Deep wounds take much longer to heal and are painful, especially in a area that is active.

Is this a puncture wound or a laceration? Puncture wounds are from stabbing, laceration wounds are from slashing or cutting. I can see this person walking after a puncture wound to the bone, but in order for a laceration, such as a sword swipe, to reach the bone it will have to cut through a wide area of muscles to do so...muscles that are needed for walking.

There is a good example of a thigh laceration in The Hunger Games. That injured character was basically immobilized and had to deal with blood loss and infection.

Loss of blood:
The Femoral artery and vein are located in the inner thigh. If these were severed your character is dead in about 2-3 minutes, unconscious in 30 seconds. Even though this is a deep outer thigh wound there will still be a lot blood. Due to being forced to walk the wound will not heal and keep breaking open, so he will bleed while walking. Maybe not gushing blood but there will be some bleeding.

Infection:
Any open wound can become infected. An uncovered wound has higher chance of infection as foreign bodies and bacteria can now enter. In a dusty and dirty environment there is a higher chance of infection. If your character was stabbed did small pieces of the weapon break off inside the wound? Was the weapon dirty? Rusty? These can also cause infection.

Environment:
Moist wounds heal faster and have less chance of infection. Dry wounds do not. Dry skin is not as elastic and will crack, making it easier for infection. Dehydration reduces the supply of oxygen and nutrients to the wound and will have a negative effect on healing, causing slower healing.

Pain:
Punch yourself in the thigh really hard and then walk around for a bit. It hurts with every step. Amplify that pain, make it deeper in the thigh and make it throb all the time. Your character will be limping. Your character will be hurting. Path inclines and declines will be very painful to walk and stairs will become his most hated enemy. Carrying heavy equipment will also be very painful. I would expect swelling to occur in the thigh.

Mental:
This is going to be painful. Each step, and I mean this, each step is going to be agonizing. This is going to hurt all the time and will either make or break your character.

Is he focused to overcome and work through the pain or distracted and defeated by it? Does he see this as a challenge to conquer or as a hindrance and burden? Does he start out defiant against this injury but become worn down and broken by the end? What will he do to ease his pain? What will he seek? What is he willing to sacrifice? Money? Food? Morals? Is death tempting him as a way out?

Everyone has a breaking point, but it is the choices your character makes after reaching that point that will define him. For better or for worse.

Quote:
Intriguing, my Dad is a medical student so if I don't know anything about this sort of thing I can just ask him.

Yeah, your father would be the best one to ask for this type of information. ;)

The only medical knowledge I have is from my own injuries, family injuries, reading notes, and google...
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ June 18th, 2012, 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
That is ... incredibly helpful, Roager. :shock:

Correct, the bone is not damaged.

I envisioned a laceration, but I could change that. I hadn't thought of using the Hunger Games for reference; I'll have to do that.

Ah, but if he was bleeding almost constantly, due to walking on it, wouldn't it flush contagion out of the wound? As far as I know there were no pieces of the weapon left.

Interesting about dry and moist wounds... I can see the dry skin being slower to heal, but isn't a moist atmosphere ideal for bacteria?

*nods* Good analysis of the physical and mental effects. I don't have him walking on it for too awful long, maybe four or five hours, and then he passes out and they have to carry him.
Author:  NotThatShort [ June 18th, 2012, 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is There A Doctor In The House?
:shock: I could have sworn I wrote a monster post here... Maybe it was Vace's "Sadistic Author" thread.

Quote:
Ah, but if he was bleeding almost constantly, due to walking on it, wouldn't it flush contagion out of the wound? As far as I know there were no pieces of the weapon left.

Correct, it could, but there is always a chance.

Quote:
Interesting about dry and moist wounds... I can see the dry skin being slower to heal, but isn't a moist atmosphere ideal for bacteria?

Also correct, which is why, ideally, it would be bandaged with a sterile, airtight bandage.

Quote:
*nods* Good analysis of the physical and mental effects. I don't have him walking on it for too awful long, maybe four or five hours, and then he passes out and they have to carry him.


Okay. Think about if it was YOU with this injury. Even someone with a very high pain tolerance, with a wound as severe as you describe, would most likely not be able to do this.
Poke your leg where you envision the cut. That's right, there isn't just flesh, there's also muscle necessary for the leg's motion.

Now to get all nerdy about nerves.
When you want to take a step, the brain sends a single scurrying down the network of nerves in your body to alert the other parts of the body to your command. If a nerve is severed, that command won't reach its intended destination, or at least not as well; it could perhaps go through another nerve pathway, but with an injury as deep as you described, several would most likely be severed. Not only would he have strange tingling or loss of feeling in lower parts of his leg and foot, but the signals his brain sends to tell the muscles to take a step would be interrupted. So it would be very hard for him to move the leg, I'm seeing him sort of dragging it.
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