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Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
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Author:  KathrineROID [ March 18th, 2012, 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I've been taking another look at Wish Flight, and I decided I didn't want to be limiting myself to one POV. In fact, the lovely troupe of sisters plus their half-brother would all have very interesting POVs! I would love to write this story switching between all five PO- wait, five? :?

I suppose if someone could talk me down to one or two POVs, that would work, but I'm actually wondering if anyone has seen several POVs handled well. I want to get my hands on such books and study them.

I created these characters with the express purpose I having fun with their different and colliding personalities, and now look where I am. :rofl:
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 18th, 2012, 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do?
Well... I use 7 POV, actually, so you will get 100 percent backing from me. :D

Tierin is obviously my MC, so we get the most POV from him. Airi is the second MC, if you will, thus she has the second most POV. From there we have the villain, Dunndar, who has a handful of POV scenes, and his minions get POV parts (Shadar in the first book, Volgarin in the second). Alonah gets a small amount of POV scenes, but she does count as a POV character. In the second book of my trilogy Mikhail has a handful of POV parts as well, which is what brings me up to 7.

I personally like multiple POVs because it allows you to do multiple things. You can describe your characters and their actions (including the MC) from other people's perspectives, that way you don't have the MCs philosophizing about themselves. You get a grander scope for the world, as seen through the eyes of multiple people. You get to explore the motivations of bad guys vs good guys... the list goes on.

The Left Behind series would be a sample of well written books that have multiple POVs. There are 5 major MCs who get a lot of POV time, and then there is a mix of other POVs from secondary characters, from time to time.
Author:  KathrineROID [ March 18th, 2012, 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do?
I did not know your stories had so many POVs! I feel in appropriate company.

My, my, did you just recommend the Left Behind series? ;)
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 18th, 2012, 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do?
*chuckles * Why thank you. :D Yes, I have several POVs, as you can see. Course, I have 120,000 words per book in the Trilogy, so I can spread all those POVs out. :D

*laughs * I may not agree doctrinally with the Left Behind Series on many topics, but there is no denying that they are well written, well crafted stories. :D
Author:  Jay Lakewood [ March 18th, 2012, 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do?
I have over three, if not four POVs in Penalty, although its estimated length is about 45 - 55 thousand words. :D But it's 3rd person, with three MCs who are in separate chapters on several occasions.
Author:  KathrineROID [ March 18th, 2012, 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do?
I know I don't agree with the theology in the Left Behind books, but I've no problem reading them for craft-of-writing education. :)

Here's where I differ from you guys: I was looking at switching POVs every scene. I felt I couldn't give each one their own chapter because we would have to wait too long to get inside the head of everyone in the story (it's very adventuresome and quickly paced), but the challenge of creating sympathy and empathy with each viewpoint when giving it so little time to become established before switching to another scared me! I'm interested in reading books with both rapid and not-so-rapid POV switching, to see which would work better.

You know, I am recalling having read such a book as I am requesting called Bella at Midnight. It has three or so main character POVs and many secondary POVs. They each had their own chapter, but I believe the chapters were often short. I'll need to reread it.

I just italicized the title in that last paragraph and realized it sounded like a companion to the Twilight series. :rofl: FTR, it's NOT!
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ March 18th, 2012, 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
*shuffles in, hands clasped behind her back* I suppose I'm rather the oddball here...I have sixteen separate POVs. :blush:

The three main ones are Arionwyn, Aaron, and Iri, but I also have substantial chunks from Clark, Fairivel, and ... eleven other people. :P Crazy thing is, one of them is first person, and all the others are third. I drew the line at making some of them present tense and some past tense though.

As for books with multiple POVs...Lemme get back to you on that. ;)
Author:  Crushmaster [ March 18th, 2012, 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Too many points-of-view?

Nonsense!
God bless,
Joel ><>.
Author:  KathrineROID [ March 18th, 2012, 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Eleutheria Mimetes wrote:
*shuffles in, hands clasped behind her back* I suppose I'm rather the oddball here...I have sixteen separate POVs. :blush:

o.O

Quote:
As for books with multiple POVs...Lemme get back to you on that. ;)

Yes, please, whatever inspired you to embark on your insane endeavor!
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 18th, 2012, 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I don't nessesarily have one POV per chapter. I switch between scenes, from time to time. :D
Author:  Lady Elanor [ March 19th, 2012, 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I have a lot of POV's as well; more than five. :)
Author:  Ciela Rose [ March 19th, 2012, 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Multiple POVs are wonderful . . . as long as you avoid switching them mid-scene. :blush: Sometimes it can be smooth and useful, but most of the time it's confusing and sloppy, and that's where I have problems.

I do multiple POVs. Azura mostly, Arctax gets a lot of screen time, so to speak, and Niama gets the occasional opinion in. Other than that, I have a lot of POV from Zanraz, a couple from assorted Polarians and an Ananthi, and others from Silvergold, Jade, Talik, and so forth . . .
I'm nowhere close to E, though. ;)

Redwall by Brian Jacques has lots of POVs. Firebird by Kathy Tyers has smooth POV switches (and the Annotated version has lots of writing tips). Other than that, I can't think of a lot of books with multiple POVs. I'll look forward to seeing what else comes up. :D
Author:  Lady Elanor [ March 19th, 2012, 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Ciela Tsana Mimetes wrote:
Multiple POVs are wonderful . . . as long as you avoid switching them mid-scene. :blush: Sometimes it can be smooth and useful, but most of the time its confusing and sloppy, and that's where I have problems.



That's what I worry about in mine, and it's what I'll want to hear about from my test readers.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 19th, 2012, 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Yeah, have to be careful with POV switches in the middle of a scene. I watch out for that in my own book, actually. See, I have had a couple of times where one sentence in a scene is a POV switch. I don't realize it when I write it, and many of my Betas don't see it, but eventually the realization hits (or my POV Beta Reader will catch it). That is where I struggle with POV switching. Those tiny little bits that should be said from the POV character's point of view. :P
Author:  kingjon [ March 19th, 2012, 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I've seen several POVs handled well by expert authors (Lois McMaster Bujold does this the best of all the authors I've read, and the late Robert Jordan also handled it quite well). But in general, the fewer POV switches, the better. I'd recommend starting with at most two POV characters, and cautiously working your way up to four, but how many a story needs depends on its scope (Bujold's one novel with four POVs is an Austen-esque "comedy of biology and manners" with the somewhat complicated plot that description suggests, while Jordan has a large number of POV characters because his story---stretching to fourteen books---is immense in scope yet intricately detailed and complicated in its plot).

The first and most important thing is that POV has to be absolutely clear. We (the reader) have to know whose head we're in (from/through whose perspective we're seeing things), and it has to be very obvious when this changes. It's a very good idea to not change perspective at all in the middle of a scene or section.

A second point is to not multiply POVs just to let us see different characters' thoughts and emotions. The reason to use someone as a POV character is to give us information that we otherwise couldn't get (except by the author contriving to have the character meet the POV character and info-dump it), or to give a substantially different perspective on events. And once you've added a new POV charater, it's better to use that character again if you can rather than adding yet another.
Author:  RedWing the Purple [ March 19th, 2012, 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I have one story that has two MCs and occasionally switches POV to side characters when needed. I love the scope and depth that multiple POVs can give, and I don't know if you can have too many (Well...yes, you can. A book with over 30 POVs would be hard to get through.), if you do it well.

As for recommending books for multiple POVs...LOTR, for one thing. And also there's Auralia's Colors and the rest of the books that switched POVs quite frequently, at least the ones I have read do.

I also have a book I can point you to on how not to do it. ;) I literally put the book down and wouldn't finish it because this was done poorly. In this book (which I won't mention by name at this point), there are over 7 POV characters. Which is fine. Except the authors did not give that much thought as to how to go about handling the POV changes. I couldn't keep track of the characters and their settings, their names, their personalities, sub plots, and I was never able to relate to any of them. In one instance they introduced us to a character in one chapter and left it on a cliffhanger, but not get back to it after eight or nine chapters of more disjointed confusion, until I had almost completely forgotten about the character and the cliffhanger.

There were other reasons as to why I didn't like this book, but that was the major reason I put it down.

So when shifting POVs, make sure that you put a lot of thought into how you handle the characters. Make sure the reader has a chance to get to know the character, and don't go too long without covering the character again.

Ultimately, multiple POVs can be very powerful and effective, and each POV adds another layer of depth in the story. But it does have to be used carefully. :D
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 19th, 2012, 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Thank you, Redwing, I agree. :D
Author:  Lady Elanor [ March 20th, 2012, 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
That was a good post, Red! :) Thanks.
Author:  Aemi [ March 20th, 2012, 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Thank you for all these tips, everybody! Have fun with your multiple POVs, Kath. :)

To paraphrase another author: You can get away with practically anything in a book, as long as you do it well.
Author:  KathrineROID [ March 20th, 2012, 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Ciela Tsana Mimetes wrote:
Redwall by Brian Jacques has lots of POVs. Firebird by Kathy Tyers has smooth POV switches (and the Annotated version has lots of writing tips). Other than that, I can't think of a lot of books with multiple POVs. I'll look forward to seeing what else comes up. :D

Ooh, I never realized how many POV switchings Firebird has, even though the series is one of my favorites! I also have the Redwall books on hand. Looks like my sister will finally get me to read some. ;)

kingjon wrote:
I've seen several POVs handled well by expert authors (Lois McMaster Bujold does this the best of all the authors I've read, and the late Robert Jordan also handled it quite well). But in general, the fewer POV switches, the better. I'd recommend starting with at most two POV characters, and cautiously working your way up to four, but how many a story needs depends on its scope (Bujold's one novel with four POVs is an Austen-esque "comedy of biology and manners" with the somewhat complicated plot that description suggests, while Jordan has a large number of POV characters because his story---stretching to fourteen books---is immense in scope yet intricately detailed and complicated in its plot).

I've not heard of either of these authors, but shall look into them. Thank you.

And thank you everyone who has talked about the craft of multiple POVs - Especially Red and Kingjon. Y'all mentioned a few things I really need to consider, such as the function of each of the POVs.
Author:  AzlynRose [ March 30th, 2012, 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I like multiple POVs, though I don't usually write them. In the story I wrote during NaNo, I had two MCs who I would switch back and forth every chapter. Both in third person. I think if you have multiple POVs, first person would get too confusing. (Sorry E :P )

In the fantasy novel I am planning, Anria is the main character, but the five people she is with all will have some POv scenes. All in third person.
Author:  kingjon [ March 31st, 2012, 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
Aliza Rose Mimetes wrote:
I think if you have multiple POVs, first person would get too confusing.

If each character has a sufficiently distinctive voice (and the POV character's voice should, IMO, come through whether you're writing in first or third person), having multiple first-person POVs isn't necessarily any more confusing than multiple POVs in general.
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ March 31st, 2012, 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Too many POVs! What to do? *Book Recommendations*
I've only got on first-person POV - the MC - and the rest are third person. :)

The Restorer's Son and The Restorer's Journey are very good examples of multiple first-person perspectives that are very well delineated.
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