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Steampunk Gryphons
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Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ January 24th, 2012, 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Steampunk Gryphons
*deep breath* Ok. Here's the scoop: I'm [supposed to be] writing a book for OYAN*. I have scattered notes and not really any plot, but I've fallen in love with an idea and I'm determined to fit it into my story. Steampunk gryphons. :cool:

I love gryphons and I love steampunk architecture, so I figured why not smush them together? I'm not really into the cyborg aspect of steampunk, so all the steampunky stuff will be tack and gear that fits onto the gryphons, rather than implants and mechanical limbs.

So...this thread is going to be my general melting pot of ideas. I was hoping that you creative Holy Worlders could give me some feedback and suggestions on my ideas. :D

Currently, my main obstacle is figuring out how a human would ride a gryphon. I've figured out the basic fastenings of the saddle: the saddle would sit right below the gryphon's neck, in front of the wing joint. The cantle (back of the saddle) would end somewhere between the wings. The saddle would be strapped to the gryphon with a girth strap in front of the wing joint and a breastplate. I'm thinking that the saddle's seat would be long to allow the rider to slide back and lean over the gryphon's neck. The front of the saddle would have a flat handle-type strap that the rider could grab onto.

But...stirrups. I can't figure out where the rider would put his legs. The obvious option is having the legs folded along the tops of the wings almost like a jockey position, but that seems uncomfortable and unbalanced. I'd like to have short stirrups that allow the rider's legs to lie against the gryphon's sides or shoulders, but I'm not sure how to do that. Any ideas?

One of my ideas was to trim off one or two flight feathers from each wing right at the wing joint, creating a gap for the rider's legs. I'm not sure how that would affect flight, though. I need to read up on flight physics.

Anyhow, any comments, thoughts, critiques, are welcome. Thanks for reading! :D

In Christ,
~ Evening

* One Year Adventure Novel.
Author:  Aragorn [ January 24th, 2012, 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I'm afraid I don't know anything about how a human would ride a gryphon...

However, I like this idea a lot and will be watching this thread. :cool:
Author:  RunningWolf [ January 24th, 2012, 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I really like gryphons too! I'm going to have to find them in my world... :D
How big are your gryphons? I'm not sure how helpful I can be, but I can try to think about it once I know how big they are.
Author:  cephron [ January 24th, 2012, 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Yes, a size estimate would probably help. :) Also, do you think you could perhaps post some links to pictures that you think represent your gryphon's body configuration? Looking at "gryphon" google images gives lots of conceptions. Which ones work for you?
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ January 25th, 2012, 1:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I was going to try to make these creatures as scientifically accurate as possible, but after learning that a 300 lbs. gryphon would require approximately a 165 ft. wingspan, I kinda gave up on that idea. :roll:

So...measurements. Around 6-7 feet long, from chest to hindquarters. Their tails are about as long as a lion's, so about 30-40 inches. They have a bunch of feathers at the tip of their tail that they can fan out and use while flying.

I usually describe my gryphons as being like the ones in the Narnia movies, but fluffier and not quite as "beaky". :D This is another good illustration and you've got to see this one 'cause it's adorable. :rofl: I'm working on learning to draw gryphons, so maybe I'll be able to sketch one of them someday. My current drawing skills leave a lot to be desired.

I have some other ideas about saddles, but I'll write them out tomorrow.
Author:  Aragorn [ January 25th, 2012, 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I was going to try to make these creatures as scientifically accurate as possible, but after learning that a 300 lbs. gryphon would require approximately a 165 ft. wingspan, I kinda gave up on that idea. :roll:

Wow. :rofl:

Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I'm working on learning to draw gryphons, so maybe I'll be able to sketch one of them someday.

That would be neat. :cool:

Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I have some other ideas about saddles, but I'll write them out tomorrow.

Sounds good. :D
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ January 27th, 2012, 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I was going to try to make these creatures as scientifically accurate as possible, but after learning that a 300 lbs. gryphon would require approximately a 165 ft. wingspan, I kinda gave up on that idea. :roll:

No, you can do it! I have faith in you. :cool: Making the planet have really strong winds could help a lot. :D

I look forward to finding out where you take this project. :cool:
Author:  kingjon [ February 1st, 2012, 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I've thought of a few possibilities:
1. A rider could ride side-saddle, rather than astride---both legs would go on the same side of the gryphon's neck.
2. A rider could ride by lying down on the gryphon's back, rather than sitting. (I get this idea partly from the "companion animal" in the latest Zelda video game ...)
3 A rider could sit (or lie) in an apparatus below the gryphon's body, rather than above.
Author:  Calista Bethelle [ February 1st, 2012, 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Ooh, you could rig up a glider behind the gryphon for the rider to lay in. :D
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ February 3rd, 2012, 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Thanks for the feedback and ideas. :D I'm leaning towards your second suggestion, kingjon, to have the rider pretty much lying flat on the gryphon's back. I haven't done any world-building for a few days but I'm hoping to get to it this weekend. I'll post whatever I come up with then.
Author:  Calista Bethelle [ February 3rd, 2012, 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Eve, if you don't want the glider idea, I'll use it. :dieshappy:
Author:  Aragorn [ February 3rd, 2012, 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
Thanks for the feedback and ideas. :D I'm leaning towards your second suggestion, kingjon, to have the rider pretty much lying flat on the gryphon's back.

I was thinking how, since this is steampunk, the gryphon riders could have guns. If they had a gun that could be fired with one hand, they could hold on with the other hand while lying on the gryphon's back. Alternately, they could strap themselves onto the gryphon, and then have both hands to fire a larger gun. Or the gun could be mounted on the gryphon's back, and the rider would just have to aim and fire it.

Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I haven't done any world-building for a few days but I'm hoping to get to it this weekend. I'll post whatever I come up with then.

Good. :cool:
Author:  cephron [ February 3rd, 2012, 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I was going to try to make these creatures as scientifically accurate as possible, but after learning that a 300 lbs. gryphon would require approximately a 165 ft. wingspan, I kinda gave up on that idea. :roll:
Wow! Where/how did you get that result?

Anyway, I was thinking that maybe this would at least give you an interesting problem to solve using steampunk. So, the gryphon can't have a 165 wingspan? Well, then it can't weigh 300 lbs! Suppose it's much lighter than that, and has a wingspan of only 20-30 ft. Suppose its bones are all hollow like a bird's, and its muscle mass (with the exception of it's wing-driving pectorals) is much lower than in your standard gryphon. There! Now it can support itself when in flight...but the problem is when it needs to take on a rider, a weapon and ammunition. It can't sustain flight for long periods bearing that kind of weight. So--steampunk to the rescue--it needs something to boost it's carrying capacity!

I can think of three ways to do this...although in all three cases, there is the difficulty of making sure they do not interfere with the gryphon's own wings.

1) Gas bag. Pros: permanent lifting. Cons: easy target, loss of agility.
2) Glider wings, with superior glide ratio to gryphon's own wings. Pros: permanent glide benefit, less vulnerable target. Cons: adds even more weight without any active lifting benefit.
3) Gyrocopter of some sort. Pros: Powerful, active lifting, lower impact on agility, strategic placement may reduce vulnerability to melee attacks from above. Cons: fuel-dependant; runs for limited time, is a lot of extra weight and no help when it does run out.

Myself, I like the gyrocopter idea. What could be more steampunk than a dwarf with a hand cannon riding a gryphon with a pair of gyrocopter boosters behind the saddle? :rofl: But yeah, that option is also the one where we'd really want to make sure it doesn't interfere with the gryphon's wings. :P Maybe worth thinking about/playing around with.
Author:  Riniel Jasmina [ February 3rd, 2012, 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
As far as missing feathers and flight physics, if you look at a raven or crow in the autumn it's not uncommon for them to be missing a few flight feathers. But it's always symmetrical because when they lose one on one side, the rip the one on the other side out so they'll stay balanced.
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ February 5th, 2012, 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I'm still thinking through all these awesome suggestions. ^_^ I'll be back in a bit with a more intelligent reply. :book: This weekend's turned out to be way busier than I expected.
Author:  Lady Evelyn Mimetes [ February 10th, 2012, 3:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
About your feather problem: My Dad is a physicist/has a degree in physics, so he might know and if not my grandfather does a bit of bird watching (plus he was in the air force so he knows about flying). I can ask them and see what they say about it. I'll get back to you on it soon ;).

All in all I love the idea, and will give you any ideas I can think up, but it's late and I have to get up early (well for me that is, I'm homeschooled so I get away with sleeping in late).

P.S. I'm doing OYAN too! (The downside is that it puts my dragon book on hold because I believe it is supposed to have a human far a main character rather then a dragon)
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ February 11th, 2012, 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I'm going to be away from HW for a week or two starting next week. I have a pile of school work and projects that I need some extra time to work on, and my eyes have started acting up from spending too much time on the computer. This happened to me last year and a week away from extra computer activities seemed to cure it, so I'm hoping it will work again. :) That said, my OYAN book is on my list of projects to work on while I'm offline, so hopefully I'll return with more cohesive ideas.

cephron wrote:
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
I was going to try to make these creatures as scientifically accurate as possible, but after learning that a 300 lbs. gryphon would require approximately a 165 ft. wingspan, I kinda gave up on that idea. :roll:
Wow! Where/how did you get that result?

I calculated an approximate ratio of the weight of an eagle to the length of its wingspan and then plugged in the weight of a smallish African lion. (Thanks to Mark for reminding me about how to calculate ratios.) Though I have been known to horribly botch math problems before, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if my numbers turned out wrong...

Cephron, those ideas are brilliant. :shock: I don't think I ever would have thought of using steampunk in that way. I like the idea of the glider wings especially...that coupled with Mark's idea of strong wings and updrafts might work out perfectly...

As I've been reading though some of these ideas, I realized that my definition of steampunk is a lot less steampunk-y than most everyone else's! This whole time I've been thinking of Myst-type architecture and such. One of the things I'm going to mull over while I'm away is how steampunk my world is going to be.

Milly, that is a clever idea! I'm afraid I'm rather attached to the idea of riders riding on their gryphons, though. If you start a thread on it, I'd love to see how you develop that idea. I think it's really neat. :D

Kingjon, I'm leaning most towards your second suggestion. It seems that having the rider lie flat against the gryphon's back would reduce drag the best compared with more upright riding positions. I also like your third idea...I can see that being useful in some situations, like if a rider was wounded and couldn't balance on the gryphon's back.

I never noticed that, Rin. Thanks for pointing that out. :D

Wow, it sounds like your family would know quite a lot about flight physics, Evelyn! :D Once I get back with some more notes next week, I'll see if I have some more specific questions that you could ask your Dad or grandfather.

Thanks for all the help and feedback, everyone! :D
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ February 11th, 2012, 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Evening L. Aspen wrote:
Cephron, those ideas are brilliant. :shock: I don't think I ever would have thought of using steampunk in that way. I like the idea of the glider wings especially...that coupled with Mark's idea of strong wings and updrafts might work out perfectly...
:dieshappy: See? It worked out. ;)
Author:  Seabird Mimetes [ March 16th, 2012, 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Say, have you ever watched Dinotopia? When they ride the.... Gosh I can't remember the name- The flying things. >.< Dinosaurs. Some sort of flying dinosaur. They ride on the gryphon's back flat, on their stomach. You could watch the movie and examine the saddles they have there.

And have you considered Gryphons flying in a more vertical fashion by any chance? Like an angel? It suits two legged creatures better but it could work. Maybe. Just throwing that out there.

Oh... Have you ever thought of putting like a transport thingy on the back instead? Like the ones they put on elephants? It wouldn't work for combat, but it would be something used for when the family is taking a trip, assuming the gryphon can support their weight of course.

Oh... I think I'll use that last idea myself. :P
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 17th, 2012, 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Skybacks. They are called Skybacks. :D And they are awesome. :cool:
Author:  Seabird Mimetes [ March 17th, 2012, 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Airianna Mimetes wrote:
Skybacks. They are called Skybacks. :D And they are awesome. :cool:


Yes they are. My personal favorite is the little raptors. :3

Zippo is so cute (I think that's his name)!
Author:  NotThatShort [ April 15th, 2012, 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Millicent Mimetes wrote:
Ooh, you could rig up a glider behind the gryphon for the rider to lay in. :D

I like this idea (I've only read a few of the replies to this post, not all the way through, so my post may be redundant). It could have wing-like thingies, like a hang glider, and wheels on the bottom for touchdown :D
Author:  Calista Bethelle [ April 16th, 2012, 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I think she decided to trash my idea, Tall One (can I call you that? :D). I think I'm saving it for my world, but you can borrow it if you want. :)
Author:  NotThatShort [ April 16th, 2012, 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
And by the way, most if not all flying creatures have hollow bones. So the 300lb gryphon you mentioned could be big enough to ride and weigh much less. Just factor in the size with the weight and wingspan, and somehow subtract the absent weight from the hollow bones. Lol
Author:  Sam Starrett [ April 18th, 2012, 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
imnotthatshort wrote:
And by the way, most if not all flying creatures have hollow bones. So the 300lb gryphon you mentioned could be big enough to ride and weigh much less. Just factor in the size with the weight and wingspan, and somehow subtract the absent weight from the hollow bones. Lol


True, and a good point, but don't forget you'd have to think about how hollow bones work with the distinctly un-avian musculature and frame of a lion. Maybe gryphons are not as strong as "pure" lions? Maybe they injure more easily?
Author:  NotThatShort [ April 18th, 2012, 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
I'm pretty sure it WOULD have to have a 165' wingspan to lift itself if it didn't have hollow bones, so yeah. I'm not the writer though ;) I mean, I am a writer, but I'm not writing about steampunk gryphons (what is a steampunk, anyway?).
Author:  Seabird Mimetes [ April 18th, 2012, 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Steampunk is pretty much another word for industrial. Or at least that's what people tell me.
Author:  NotThatShort [ April 18th, 2012, 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Okay, interesting :) can't wait to read it!
Author:  kingjon [ April 18th, 2012, 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
imnotthatshort wrote:
(what is a steampunk, anyway?).

See this thread in the World Building forum.
Author:  Sam Starrett [ April 18th, 2012, 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
imnotthatshort wrote:
(what is a steampunk, anyway?).


*Seconds the thread recommend from kingjon* That's not universally agreed. I have an opinion, which you'll find on that thread, and others have other opinions, which you'll also find on that thread.
Author:  NotThatShort [ April 18th, 2012, 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steampunk Gryphons
Okay, I think I get it, but I'm too tired to read through the whole thing =P
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