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 Post subject: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: March 10th, 2010, 1:44 pm 
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O...kay...*licks her lips and grins* I have several subjects that I could use some help with. Part of my plan is to have you all thoroughly confused by the time I'm through.

First, armies. I have two of them. One good, and one bad. Savvy? :D
I need some help with numbers especially. Cavalry, foot soldiers, etc. If you'll take a look at my map, it'll help you understand the situation better. The Andunian army, which invaded Carseld about 3 years ago, is marching from Elaya (the capitol of Carseld) to Shirdan to--as Klista (Andunian Queen) put it-- "Crush that pest Clark (the rightful king.)" Following me so far? I know it's complicated. :?
I need an idea of A)How long it will take the Andunians to get there and B)How big can both armies be without seeming fantastical? Shirdan has help coming in from the Anaran Wood, (the Tuliran race) the Sivanis (formerly Nanivis -- in the north) the Raechal (on the plains of Wyndan) and the Laeclans (elves). Originally it was a small military outpost, but has grown somewhat to accommodate the flow of Elayan refugees, recruits from nearby countryside, etc. I also need a Dreadful Promise fulfilled about how big the Andunian army really is. (it needs to be bigger than any of them thought...applying the OYAN curriculum technique)

Ok, enough confusing you about armies. Now we go into battles. Hold on, it'll get worse. :roll:
I have two or three battles that need to happen. The first is devastating to Clark's army. The second is hopeless until the elves arrive, at which time the Andunians retreat for a time. The third and last is where Klista dies/is conquered. I need to plan out what exactly happens in each one, and each will most likely be told from first person perspective (MC...who is also a Dragonrider. That will give us a bigger picture, I think, but I need to know what actually happens before she can see it.) Resources, suggestions?

I know you've all been waiting through my ramble about armies and battles to find out what the "Enchanted Elves" part of the title means. :) Well, here you go.
Klista has captured three elven Dragonriders from the good side: Aaron, (whom you all met in Character Introductions) Fairfax, and his twin brother Faulkner. Faulkner (aka Hawk) was wounded in a fight just before they were captured, and is weaker than the others. Klista takes him away from the other prisoners, and while he's unconscious she enchants him, giving him a portion of her own personality. She marks him with a tattoo-like emblem, which is energy charged and will feed the spell until it runs out. She then gives him a task--which is to assassinate the Prince. Here's the catch--the other characters can't know he's enchanted. The mark is not visible, and he retains most of his personality. They need a clue, however. He needs to act or feel "off" but not so much that they suspect something. His personality type is ISTP. What can change in him that would trigger a feeling of uneasiness in the other characters?

If you got this far, thanks for reading. I could use all the suggestions I can get. Please, please don't hesitate to ask me any questions you might have, or to inquire about anything unclear.
Thanks!

~Lady Eruwaedhiel

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: March 10th, 2010, 3:31 pm 
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What does ISTP mean?

How long it will take the Andunians to get there - Where exactly is the capitol and the destination on your map? I can't seem to find it. But... I'd say maybe a few days, depending on how weary or fresh the army is.

How big can both armies be without seeming fantastical - Maybe somewhere in the middle thousands? The Andunians could be double the size of Shirdan's army, for the Dreadful Promise part.

I haven't done a lot of deep war scenes, but I hope it helps.

For the battles you could use battles in history all over the world. There's bound to be something, and add a little twist to it, perhaps, to keep things unexpected.

Hmm... maybe doing something that goes against regular habits? (For example, someone who doesn't talk very much, might talk to himself) Or maybe getting irritated a lot quicker than they usually would. Not frequently, of course.

Dunno if this helps. What you have planned sounds exciting!

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: March 10th, 2010, 5:43 pm 
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What lost you, Inesdar? :P

Zoey, those are some great points, especially about Faulkner's "problem". ISTP is a personality type that means Introverted Sensing Thinking Perceiving. You can see what it means here. He doesn't talk a lot, so talking to himself could be a good thing. (or a bad thing -- depends on how you see it :D )

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: March 13th, 2010, 8:05 am 
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I'm glad it helped. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: March 25th, 2010, 10:27 am 
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Lady E.,

Its amazing how many things you have to learn to write fantasy. :)

There is no real set boundary that I have found for army size, though I think they are generally in the middle to high ten thousands, and the very low hundred thousands at times. It depends a lot on context, like, how large the nations fighting are, how easily the land can support a host of fighting men, how important the war is to the different sides, and whether either nation has conquered dominions that can be levied for soldiers.

When the Britons opposed Suetonius's Roman army, the Britons mustered at an estimated 230,000.

When Austria, France, and Russia allied themselves to crush and divide Prussia their joint forces amounted to quite a bit over 400,000.

This certainly doesn't mean that the Britons had less reason to fight than the allies against Prussia, - every British man able to fight rose up against Suetonius - but that Briton was smaller.

So, basically, it depends on context.

How quickly the armies travel realistically has pretty much the same answer. A pack of Arabian camelriders sweeping round through an empty desert in the wet season to a surprise attack will travel a good bit faster than a legion of Romans slogging to winter quarters through a swamp. Add a baggage train and they might not get there till spring. :)

There are, of course, the more apparent things to be taken into account for context, like, whether it is the dry season or the wet season, in the more tropical climates; whether the host is mainly composed of cavalry or infantry; whether they are trying to go fast or slow; whether they have baggage to slow them down, and things of that sort. But another thing is the commander.

Daun, one of the generals in the seven years war, was a very slow general, and consequently his army was slow. Frederick, his opponent, on the other hand, would manage to get his Prussians from one place to another with astonishing rapidity. A commander counts for a lot.

So thats some stuff I've found, hope it helps. :) I was trying to do some research for the numbers in our G. A. Hentys and ended up reading at least four of them almost all the way through. I always get stuck when I try to do research in books, they suck me in. Catch a few paragraphs out of some of my favorite battles, and then it just, kind of, ends up with me reading the whole thing. Research is fun. :)

About Faulkner. Well, I really like your idea, and, being an ISTP myself, I asked Mama what could change about my personality to make me feel off. She said that it would probably be talking more in a group of people and displaying my feelings more readily. :) (Note: remember, more ready to show emotion is more than just irritability.)

Another idea Mama and I came up with is to take the queen's personality type, line it up with his, and then adjust the balance of the letters where they do not correspond slightly towards her.

I hope this helps you!

And Mama says I'm concise. :(

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: April 4th, 2010, 10:31 pm 
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I had a whole big reply, and then the database crashed. :( (how many apologies am I going to need?) Anyway, this was very helpful, Elpis. Thanks, I wish you would post more often.

And "Mr. Squishy"...you said this was a rather common plot...um...aspect? Explain...please? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 4:43 pm 
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Could re-share the map? When I click on the link, it shows a general error screen.

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 11:05 pm 
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One of the things that helps me a lot when describing battles and troop movements is looking at the civil war. Even though it happened in the 1860's, they still used outdated methods in battle and didn't really have any transportation technology greater than what medieval people had (horses, wagons). So really their troop movements and armies should correspond fairly well to what I look for in a fantasy book.

And as far as troop numbers...General Lee's army consisted of 50,000 men by the battle of Gettysburg, while Meade had around 100,000 men at his disposal. It's really up to what you intend to use the men for. Maybe the Andunians have a brilliant general and a strength in numbers, but after their general is killed even their man-to-man advantage doesn't help them win the battle. This is how Lee won so many battles in the Civil War the South had a great commander (Lee) while the North failed to have a consistent, strong, general.

Hope this helps, at least a little bit. :)

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: July 16th, 2010, 9:00 am 
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They had trains which they used a lot, as well as artillery.

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: July 16th, 2010, 9:53 am 
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They did use trains, I guess, but not always. The South, especially, had very little rail lines. And artillery isn't really transportation; it would actually slow an army down since then you've got to keep that artillery stocked with ammo, which means more supply trains. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Armies, Battles, Dreadful Promises and Enchanted Elves
PostPosted: July 16th, 2010, 9:59 am 
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Yes, but in battle they used artillery extensively.

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