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A good bad guy?
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4786		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 29th, 2011, 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  A good bad guy?
I was thinking today about how it would be different if you had someone who wasn't a 'good guy' but he did something extra that made you admire him? I was thinking about people in the world wars; a man who was convicted after the war for indecency because of his lifestyle, but he had done so much in the war to help with codes etc, and through that saved lives. It is possible to have people who do bad things or live maybe a wrong lifestyle, but still do amazing things. Can we show that in our stories? Have you ever written a character like this? What are the difficulties in presenting someone in this way?
Author:  Skathi [ October 29th, 2011, 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
:cool: *LOVES TOPIC*

Can't wait to see what everyone else posts!!

For myself, I deal in good-bad guys regularly. Many of my mc's and villains are good-bad. The only real difference between them is that the mc is more appealing to the reader and the villain is against the mc. :P That, of course, and the fact that the mc is losing against the villain... :D

I think having a good-bad guy is powerful. A good-bad mc can make the reader yell with annoyance and anger when he does wrong... a good-bad villain can inspire an unsettling confusion of feelings (hate/empathy/admiration) that really stirs. As long as distinctions are made between what's good and what's bad in each, I see no problem with this approach to characters.

In fact, its probably one of the most realistic. All people are capable of immense good and immense wickedness. Especially in a villain, to show something awesomely good up against something evil is to help the reader realize that we're all on the same plane. Man was created to be perfect... man is now abnormal. And I believe if written correctly this can lead to a real understanding on the reader's part, which can translate into real life.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ October 30th, 2011, 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
The world isn't black and white. People aren't stereotypes. Everyone is a good-bad character. That's why MC's with flaws are more lovable than if they were perfect, and believable villains are the ones who believe themselves to be doing good. So there for good-bad characters are the most realistic and the best characters to have.

Basically, what Cassandra said. :D
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ October 30th, 2011, 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
*is unsure if I should move this to Character Development*
Author:  Skathi [ October 30th, 2011, 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Vanya Katerina Jaynin wrote:
The world isn't black and white. People aren't stereotypes. Everyone is a good-bad character. That's why MC's with flaws are more lovable than if they were perfect, and believable villains are the ones who believe themselves to be doing good. So there for good-bad characters are the most realistic and the best characters to have.


*agrees*

But I actually took Lady Elanor's post to be speaking not of just ordinarily faults like the occasional lie/outburst of temper in the good guy, or of a simple good deed in the bad. I took her to meaning a seriously noble deed in the bad guy--or an really blantantly wicked one in the 'good'. Which I see as being more powerful in a story that the obvious faults and virtues we all carry.
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 31st, 2011, 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Lovely reply, Cassie; and that is exactly what I mean.

I also think it makes them more believable yes, Vanya. I cringe when I read a book and the MC is completely perfect, because you can't relate to them at all.

Thanks for commenting, Vanya and Cassie.

Lady E, I was in two minds so if you think it fits better there feel free to move it. :D
Author:  Skathi [ October 31st, 2011, 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Lady Elanor wrote:
Lovely reply, Cassie; and that is exactly what I mean.


Y'welcome.

Lady Elanor wrote:
I cringe when I read a book and the MC is completely perfect, because you can't relate to them at all.


The like of Elsie Dinsmore, perhaps? :)
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 31st, 2011, 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
*Laughs* Exactly!
Author:  Skathi [ October 31st, 2011, 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Lady Elanor wrote:
*Laughs* Exactly!


:rofl:
Author:  BushMaid [ October 31st, 2011, 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
*runs screaming from the room* Nooooo! Not Elsie Dinsmore!! :shock: ;)

A character that came to mind when reading this thread was Flynn Ryder from Tangled. A common thief and proud of it, he was pretty much the bad-good guy of the movie. However in this case, it's probably a little different because all the Disney bad-good guys come around in the end. :roll:

Just a pointless little thought I dropped in there. :D
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 31st, 2011, 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
*Laughs at Bushy*

That was neither pointless nor little. :D Flynn is a good example, although yes, they do always change in Disney hehe. :rofl:
Author:  Duchess Daisy Mimetes [ October 31st, 2011, 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
* puzzled * How did I end up in here? I got an email saying there had been a new reply to this thread, but I have never even seen it.
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 31st, 2011, 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Someone must have summoned you, Daisy. Wasn't me, but I guess someone who replied must have. :)
Author:  Duchess Daisy Mimetes [ October 31st, 2011, 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
That's what I figured... but I couldn't tell who or for what reason. :P
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ October 31st, 2011, 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
:blush: I wanted your opinion on whether to move this thread.

SOMEONE ELSE WHO DOESN'T LIKE ELSIE DINSMORE!!
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 31st, 2011, 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Well, I suppose I'm not developing a character which is why I didn't post it there in the end. :) I'm more talking about the issue of dealing with writing a bad guy, so I put it in here. *Grins*

*Laughs* I think most people can see that she is not a realistic character, maybe. :D
Author:  Aragorn [ October 31st, 2011, 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
It could go in Character Development, and probably should. :)
Author:  Lady Elanor [ October 31st, 2011, 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
Ok I moved it there. :D Thanks, Lady E and Jon, and sorry for posting it in the wrong place. :blush:
Author:  Duchess Daisy Mimetes [ November 7th, 2011, 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A good bad guy?
@Lady E Oh it's fine, I feel honored to have been summoned. :D
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