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Don't Make it Too Salty
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Author:  BushMaid [ October 23rd, 2011, 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Don't Make it Too Salty
Note: See here for an updated view on this topic (which is way more awesome, trust me).

I wanted to share some of the message I heard at church today that I realized, as I was listening, could be applied effectively to our writing.

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men." - Matthew 5:13

The speaker today drew our attention to the nature of salt; its purity and its strength (of flavour) being symbolic of Godliness: raw, blinding, pure presence of God that no one would be capable of coming close into. God desires for us however to strive for this Godliness, and to be the pure salt of the earth.

For us to be the seasoning, and to retain our spiritual "saltiness" that God desires, we must spend time with the Author of Purity, becoming more like Him through studying His Word. In this way, we can affect the lives around us because the purity of God is shining out of us. But you know all this. ;)

The thing that caught my attention was a key thing about the salt. When one adds salt to their food, it makes it taste so much better; adding extra flavour, being the seasoning that draws out the best tastes in each food. However, if one were to simply eat an entire spoonful of salt on its own... :P The saltiness of it is overwhelmingly powerful! One would not be able to swallow it.

It was here something clicked. I have read many discussions about how much Godly/Biblical material we should put into our writing. How much is too much, or how much is too little? Should there be any? Should it be all there is? And I realized that how much or how little of Scriptural influence we should put into our writing is much like how much salt we add to our food:

Too much, and you overwhelm your reader, and they can't swallow it.

Too little, and you have a story that is bland and tasteless.

However if you add just the right amount, your writing becomes something rich and flavorsome, and your reader will leave with a good taste in their mouth and the memory of something fine.

So no real conclusion to this thread, but I just thought I would encourage you in your writing about Godly things. As a chef knows when a meal needs much salt or little, so the Lord can guide you in finding the perfect balance for your writing. :D
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ October 23rd, 2011, 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Salty
Thank you for posting that, BushMaid. I'd never thought of that before. :)
Author:  BushMaid [ October 23rd, 2011, 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Salty
You're welcome, Twinnie. Thankyou for reading. :)
Author:  Aragorn [ October 23rd, 2011, 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
That's a good general principle for writing fiction. :)
Author:  Skathi [ October 23rd, 2011, 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Jonathan Garner wrote:
That's a good general principle for writing fiction. :)


Yeah.

A fresh way of saying 'don't be preachy', I suppose--but new and thought-provoking for its freshness. Thank you, Bush.
Author:  Aragorn [ October 23rd, 2011, 3:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
I think it's more about figuring out what fits each individual story. :book:
Author:  BushMaid [ October 23rd, 2011, 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
You're welcome, Cassandra. Thankyou for reading! :D

Jonathan Garner wrote:
I think it's more about figuring out what fits each individual story. :book:

Exactly. I believe that there is a balance to be had, which is what I was trying to convey. But like you said, it will be different for everyone's story. Which is also why I added that the Lord can reveal to us just how it can be achieved. :)
Author:  Skathi [ October 23rd, 2011, 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Jonathan Garner wrote:
I think it's more about figuring out what fits each individual story. :book:


I wasn't actually advocating a one-type-fits-all. :)

*ponders further* I just read CS Lewis' 'That Hideous Strength' and he has a way of making obvious messages extrememly palatable... has an uncontrived, clear way of putting things across that doesn't put you off, but makes you think further. This story, of course, was meant to be in many ways very salty, but I can think of other authors who would have overdone the salt. Depends on the author as well as the story.
Author:  BushMaid [ October 23rd, 2011, 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Cassandra wrote:
*ponders further* I just read CS Lewis' 'That Hideous Strength' and he has a way of making obvious messages extrememly palatable... has an uncontrived, clear way of putting things across that doesn't put you off, but makes you think further. This story, of course, was meant to be in many ways very salt, but I can think of other authors who would have overdone the salt. Depends on the author as well as the story.

I know a few people who have mentioned some books they read tended to get "preachy", but I myself haven't read many that are too over-the-top in such a way. But hearing this message today made me think of those opinions, and I thought I'd share what I heard. :)

And you're right: it does depend on the author and even more so the story. If your purpose is to portray a strong, Biblical truth in writing, then it would be quite salty. (yet in a good way. Some very salty foods still taste very good ;)) But I do think there is such a thing as too much, and sometimes it is hard to tell.
Author:  Aragorn [ October 23rd, 2011, 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Cassandra wrote:
I wasn't actually advocating a one-type-fits-all. :)

I knew you weren't. :)

BushMaid wrote:
I do think there is such a thing as too much, and sometimes it is hard to tell.

Too much would be where the message is eclipsing the story. The story and message must work together. Too little focus on the message can leave the message buried so deep that it is ineffective or few people notice it or it even seems preachy because it appears to be tacked on as an afterthought. Too much focus on the message can make you end up with an awkward theological work rather than a novel. This is true for any message in fiction, Christian or not.
Author:  Skathi [ October 23rd, 2011, 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
BushMaid wrote:
I know a few people who have mentioned some books they read tended to get "preachy", but I myself haven't read many that are too over-the-top in such a way. But hearing this message today made me think of those opinions, and I thought I'd share what I heard. :)

I'm glad you did. :D

Jonathan Garner wrote:
Cassandra wrote:
I wasn't actually advocating a one-type-fits-all. :)

I knew you weren't. :)

:)

Jonathan Garner wrote:
Too much would be where the message is eclipsing the story. The story and message must work together. Too little focus on the message can leave the message buried so deep that it is ineffective or few people notice it or it even seems preachy because it appears to be tacked on as an afterthought. Too much focus on the message can make you end up with an awkward theological work rather than a novel. This is true for any message in fiction, Christian or not.

Couldn't have been said better. ;)
Author:  BushMaid [ October 23rd, 2011, 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Cassandra wrote:
Jonathan Garner wrote:
Too much would be where the message is eclipsing the story. The story and message must work together. Too little focus on the message can leave the message buried so deep that it is ineffective or few people notice it or it even seems preachy because it appears to be tacked on as an afterthought. Too much focus on the message can make you end up with an awkward theological work rather than a novel. This is true for any message in fiction, Christian or not.

Couldn't have been said better. ;)

Me neither. Well said, Jonathan. :D
Author:  Aragorn [ October 23rd, 2011, 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Thank you, Cassandra and BushMaid. :)
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ October 23rd, 2011, 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Wonderful way of phrasing it, BushMaid! Thank you so much for sharing. :D
Author:  BushMaid [ October 23rd, 2011, 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Thankyou for reading, Philly dear! :D I'm glad it made some sense.
Author:  Aemi [ October 26th, 2011, 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Of course, you can't make it please everyone. Some people might complain you are being preachy when they simply are offended by your Christianity, right?
That said, I do know the difference between preaching it and living it.
Author:  J. Grace Pennington [ October 26th, 2011, 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Good observations, Bushy. :D Know your story and your audience. Good thoughts, everyone. :)
Author:  BushMaid [ October 26th, 2011, 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Aemi wrote:
Of course, you can't make it please everyone. Some people might complain you are being preachy when they simply are offended by your Christianity, right?
That said, I do know the difference between preaching it and living it.

Of course, Aemi. There's always going to be people who think anything even vaguely Christian is preachy. Mum read a short story to us yesterday that showed how well one can make a Christian story not preachy, I'll have to go and find it so that I can share it...
Author:  Skathi [ October 26th, 2011, 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
BushMaid wrote:
Mum read a short story to us yesterday that showed how well one can make a Christian story not preachy, I'll have to go and find it so that I can share it...

Do!!

*waits expectantly*
Author:  BushMaid [ October 30th, 2011, 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
I found it! :D
http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?a ... ry=knights
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ November 10th, 2011, 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Quote:
It was here something clicked. I have read many discussions about how much Godly/Biblical material we should put into our writing. How much is too much, or how much is too little? Should there be any? Should it be all there is? And I realized that how much or how little of Scriptural influence we should put into our writing is much like how much salt we add to our food:

Too much, and you overwhelm your reader, and they can't swallow it.

Too little, and you have a story that is bland and tasteless.

However if you add just the right amount, your writing becomes something rich and flavorsome, and your reader will leave with a good taste in their mouth and the memory of something fine.


Amen!
Author:  BushMaid [ November 10th, 2011, 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Thankyou for reading, Airi. :D
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ November 10th, 2011, 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
I love reading stuff in here. ;)
Author:  Riniel Jasmina [ September 28th, 2015, 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
I have to disagree with this notion here.

There have been numerous discussions on how to keep our writing from being too overtly Christian, as if we all want to learn to sneak faith so vaguely into our literature that it can neither be confirmed nor denied. The discussions are well intentioned. We are not looking to get away with as little God as possible in our stories, or we would drop the topic altogether. However, I think we often look at it in the wrong way.

Matthew 5:13 wrote:
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.


The problem is not too much salt. (Salt has many purposes. A great deal of salt preserves food, keeps you from slipping on icy roads, and gives sea creatures a place to live.) It is that our salt has lost its savour. The word of God has always drawn criticism and hatred from the world. That much will never change. Of course, we already knew we could not please everyone, but that is not even my primary point. Our writing can come off as preachy because it very often sermonizes good behavior rather than spreading the gospel. Many of us are from a similar background and raised in the church. The gospel is easily taken for granted because we're used to being the in crowd. We have salvation, now we just have to act like it. That is where the preachiness comes in. We may have characters who always do what is right. Even if they need to make impossible choices, they do what we believe is right, so they come out on top in the end. We have rebellious characters, and they have to pay for their wrongdoings before they can be heroes. Some may be offered forgiveness, but it is more often because they see the virtue of 'the right' and the fact that those who obey a certain ethical code always seem happy.

We've lost the salt.

The same apathy that rests on the church comes into our writing. We're used to playing by a list of check marks, and that fits very well into the themes of stories, so we put it in for good measure. We often consider something preachy based on how often it mentions God more than how much we try to moralize the rights and the wrongs of the characters. Some of us may sneak Him in as a vague representation of ultimate truth, but by hiding Him, He ultimately stays impersonal. We lose the saltiness even so.

What we're missing is the love. Not the pacifist, tolerant, come as you are and stay as you are, hippy love. That's just the opposite side of the legalist coin. God's love is tangible. Many still reject it outright, but it is too powerful to elicit a simple eye roll and the declaration that it is "too preachy". Staring into the souls of humanity is not preachy. An anchor in the tossing sea is not preachy. The only solid person in a world of wisping ghosts is not preachy. God's word, His grace, His love in our writing is a blessed relief from all the world has to offer. If our writing is drawing out eye rolls, can it be that our moralizing is to familiar, too similar to the methods of the world that have been tried and found wanting?

If we strip away the natural virtue, the blessing of prosperity, the required penance, the moral checklist; if we return to the tireless pursuit of the Holy Spirit, the piercing love, the tears of repentance, the embrace of redemption, perhaps we will find more people asking us to pass the salt rather than treading upon a flavorless mineral.
Author:  Karthmin [ October 1st, 2015, 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
Wow. You just bombshelled the argument. I have absolutely nothing else to add to that. xD Or even clarify. That was very well put.

Areth,

Ka
Author:  Riniel Jasmina [ October 1st, 2015, 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
It's something I'm only just understanding that probably ought to have been clear long ago.
Author:  sheesania [ October 3rd, 2015, 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
This business of not being too "preachy" in Christian fiction has also been bothering me for a while. Why do Christian writers need to sneak in their beliefs when other authors with strong opinions (for instance, pretty much every classic sci-fi author ever) can express them overtly? Why do we feel like there can be too much religion in a book when God is the source of everything beautiful and powerful and delightful and good that we could possibly want our stories to be?

I would like to see Christian authors express their beliefs openly - but in such beautiful, unexpected, fresh ways that the reader can't just write it off as preachiness. Think of what C. S. Lewis did in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - he was pretty clearly presenting familiar Christian ideas of sin, sacrifice, and forgiveness, but he did it in a new, creative way. I think also of the non-Christian authors I enjoy reading even though they often promote ideas I disagree with. I might take issue with a lot of what Ursula Le Guin says in a story, but I'll read it anyways because I know she'll present her ideas in a thoughtful, beautifully written way.

In my own writing, I'm experimenting with doing this by taking Christian ideas and translating them into fantasy worlds. How would God reveal His truth in strange cultures, in magic systems, in alien physical circumstances? Maybe by exploring God's truth in very different contexts I can challenge some preconceptions. Maybe I can get readers to actually start thinking about what I'm saying instead of just nodding along with a cliche!
Author:  Ophelia MirZA Mimetes [ October 3rd, 2015, 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
sheesania wrote:
This business of not being too "preachy" in Christian fiction has also been bothering me for a while. Why do Christian writers need to sneak in their beliefs when other authors with strong opinions (for instance, pretty much every classic sci-fi author ever) can express them overtly? Why do we feel like there can be too much religion in a book when God is the source of everything beautiful and powerful and delightful and good that we could possibly want our stories to be?

I would like to see Christian authors express their beliefs openly - but in such beautiful, unexpected, fresh ways that the reader can't just write it off as preachiness. Think of what C. S. Lewis did in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - he was pretty clearly presenting familiar Christian ideas of sin, sacrifice, and forgiveness, but he did it in a new, creative way. I think also of the non-Christian authors I enjoy reading even though they often promote ideas I disagree with. I might take issue with a lot of what Ursula Le Guin says in a story, but I'll read it anyways because I know she'll present her ideas in a thoughtful, beautifully written way.

In my own writing, I'm experimenting with doing this by taking Christian ideas and translating them into fantasy worlds. How would God reveal His truth in strange cultures, in magic systems, in alien physical circumstances? Maybe by exploring God's truth in very different contexts I can challenge some preconceptions. Maybe I can get readers to actually start thinking about what I'm saying instead of just nodding along with a cliche!


Hmm, good thoughts... I'm still trying to figure this out for my own writing - how to speak my faith well into a story, without feeling it's out of place or overdone... But perhaps that is my perspective skewed. Perhaps you're right - "Why do we feel like there can be too much religion in a book when God is the source of everything beautiful and powerful and delightful and good that we could possibly want our stories to be?"
Author:  BushMaid [ October 8th, 2015, 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
*raises hand* I'd like to retract my initial statement, your honour.

Case in point why one should not reply to threads made four years ago. :blush: Rin, thankyou. I agree with you entirely. I too, have done a lot of growing and maturing since posting this, and I can see how flawed the concept is. Thankyou for updating this argument with the voice of truth.
Author:  Riniel Jasmina [ October 8th, 2015, 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
*glomp* Hey, stranger. :D

I wasn't disagreeing with you directly. I just still encounter this way of thinking a lot and only just recently came to understand it in the way that I have. I just wanted to drop my two cents in because these sorts of threads still pop up. The metaphor caught my eye while I was in old threads and I sort of just ran with it...
Author:  Varon [ October 13th, 2015, 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Don't Make it Too Salty
I would say that audience also matters. My main dream is to publish with mainstream publishing houses for YA audiences, which includes a lot of Millennials and whatever the younger generation is now. For a lot of them, I have to engage with them on their level and what they understand, similar to how Paul engaged with the Athenians and other Greeks. For many of them, the slightest hint of religion, and especially Christianity, is enough for them to stop taking it seriously.

I can't get away with any moralizing, especially not Christian moralizing. So I have to take this second approach you described, Kitra, but there is still a very delicate balance between what the secular editors will publish and what still accurately represents God's truth.
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