Holy Worlds Christian Forum
https://archive.holyworlds.org/

Tolkien's "Magic"
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=459		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Strider [ March 3rd, 2010, 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Tolkien's "Magic"
I thought I'd share how I handle "magic" in my fantasies.

In my fantasies I agree with Tolkien's view of "magic". Tolkien's "magic", or arts as he liked to call them, were natural abilities that would seem magical to other races or species. I find this viewpoint the best one to work with and agree with, I can create each of my fantasy races or species with natural abilities which would seem magical in our world. Now I have a question for everyone here:

Do you agree with this viewpoint?

If not, why?
Author:  Seer of Endor [ March 3rd, 2010, 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
I think (from what I've read) that several people on here have this same kind of system. And I definitely agree that it is the easiest to use. But the thing I like most about Tolkien's take on magic was that it was still considered "magic" in that world by other non-elves, so he was able to explain it away while maintaining it's mystical quality.

In Christ,
Jordan
Author:  PrincessoftheKing [ March 4th, 2010, 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
I use this viewpoint in one of my stories; it is definitely the easiest way to have magic in your stories! My other story has demonic magic which only the bad guys use.

Is Tolkien's kind of magic the only kind in your stories? Or can evil characters use demonic magic?
Author:  Strider [ March 4th, 2010, 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
I personally try to stay away from demonic magic in all my stories. I am still in the early part of my story but I prefer to give each race/creature it's own gift which we would call "magical". Plus I have what some would call "magical" items in my story such as a stick that can transform into another object. If any of the creatures/races wonder why it can do that I they go through their history and find out some of their past family members had the gift of creating special objects like the stick that turns into other objects.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ March 4th, 2010, 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
Inesdar wrote:
Personally, I don't like giving my main characters magic (like in Eragon). It makes them to powerful.
Actually, one of the reasons I love the Inheritance books as much as I do is because Paolini makes sure that no matter how powerful Eragon becomes, he's still not powerful enough to do everything. The whole series has several occurrences where the fallacies of magic are stressed. But that's just my opinion.

On the other hand, I too am more fond of stories whose main characters are interesting because of their personalities and their struggles, not because they can conjure fire out of their noses. The use of magic to assert a character's value has been overdone in Fantasy (i.e. - "you have an undiscovered power which means you have to go on a quest and overthrow the Evil Lord," "Your the lost heir to the throne with the ability to overthrow the Evil Usurper.") That's one reason why Tolkien's use of "magic" works as well as it does in his stories: because the stories weren't about the "magic" they were about characters and their choices, struggles, losses and victories.

In Christ,
Jordan
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ March 31st, 2010, 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
I was fine with Tolkien's portrayals. Never could figure out, tho, why Gandalf had to put a 'shutting-spell' on the door to the Chamber of Marzabul (sp?) -- felt out of place since everything else he does is by inherent power (obviously).

Me personally--I stick to inherent power only, and dislike the negative connontations of the word magic...so I will use given/inherent power, but I will not call it magic.

Limits on power is necessary for realism...

And having a major character w/o power is a neat literary technique (i.e hobbits), tho we need both kinds of books in the world or things would get boring. ;)
Author:  Neil of Erk [ May 21st, 2010, 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
Melody Kondrael wrote:
I was fine with Tolkien's portrayals. Never could figure out, tho, why Gandalf had to put a 'shutting-spell' on the door to the Chamber of Marzabul (sp?) -- felt out of place since everything else he does is by inherent power (obviously).


I was bothered by that as well, until I read the Silmarillion with that topic in mind.

A "spell" is something like this: Gandalf wants the door to stay closed, but he doesn't have time to stand around and force it to remain closed with his mind. So, he places a "spell" which is like his other powers, except he doesn't have to concentrate on the object. However, the Balrog begins to exert his own power, making it necessary to concentrate on the door so that he could add more power to the "spell", and the force of the opposing wills blasts the door to pieces.

Think of a "spell" as just being residual power. It continues to be active until concentration on it changes its nature.
Author:  Whythawye [ May 22nd, 2010, 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
Slightly different from what the Witch-King of Angmar (aka Lord of the Nazgul/Ulairi/Black Riders) did to weaken and destroy the gates of Minas Tirith. That was pure black magic. (Notice also that he was not a spirit, but a man, big difference.)
Author:  Neil of Erk [ May 22nd, 2010, 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tolkiens "Magic"
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Slightly different from what the Witch-King of Angmar (aka Lord of the Nazgul/Ulairi/Black Riders) did to weaken and destroy the gates of Minas Tirith. That was pure black magic. (Notice also that he was not a spirit, but a man, big difference.)


Exactly. As a man, with very little power in him, he has to invoke the demonic (though under a different name) in order to carry out most of his acts.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/