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Writing for Graphic Novels
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3613		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 21st, 2011, 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Writing for Graphic Novels
I'm toying with the radical idea of making Faded a graphic novel. I love out-of-the-box insanity, can you tell? However, I am (usually) sensible enough to research my insane ideas before pursuing them. Therefore...

Has anyone here ever written for a graphic novel? Did you write and hire an artist, or write and draw yourself? What are your experiences? How long was your novel? What did you do with it when you were done?

In a more general sense, does anyone here read graphic novels? How long are they, on average? How much would you pay for one?
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ June 21st, 2011, 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
You and my brother would get along well. :P

We wanted to learn fencing. I was all for finding some fencing gear online and a video and getting started. He wanted to find a fencing school and see if was something he'd really enjoy or not.

He does his research. I charge headlong into things, usually starting at the wrong end and only discovering the beginning once I've mastered the end. :rofl:

All that to say... I love how you're always doing research properly, but I really don't have much to contribute. :D

(You know... that was probably very off topic. I probably shouldn't be so off-topic...)
Author:  Elly [ June 21st, 2011, 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I don't know anything about graphic novel writing. *coughcough*Should I be so blunt?*coughcough*

But I get the impression that plot lines are very important. No wandering. Straightforward. To the point.

Are you doing manga/anime? Try looking at graphic novels that are similar to what you're doing.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 21st, 2011, 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Thanks, Katie! :D Um, being a very DIY, "teach myself by trial and error" person, I don't always do enough research. Sometimes I just jump in and try it out! But for this, since it might involve paying someone, I need to at least know what I'm getting into before I can decide if it's right for the book. :D

Yes, manga/anime, Elly. That's a good idea... though finding a clean manga could be an adventure... hum!

The plotline bit is one of the reasons I think this novel could actually work as a graphic novel. It's fairly linear and a bit episodic - a lot of "little adventures" strung together to complete an ultimate goal.
Author:  Aragorn [ June 21st, 2011, 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I've read some graphic novels (and also been considering writing some). I think each volume is generally around 150 pages, but I don't know if that is actually the industry average or just the average of the ones I read. Graphic novels usually cost around ten dollars, which is expensive for a "book" that can be read in far less time than a normal novel, and when this is combined with trying to find ones without content issues, I pretty much gave up on buying works from the genre. It seems like graphic novels would work well as e-books as long as finding a good way to format and view them wasn't a problem, since then they could be sold for far cheaper. Plus in Christian graphic novels, the content wouldn't be an issue.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 21st, 2011, 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
That was helpful, Jonathan, thanks! I don't think formatting images into an ebook would be difficult at all. However, for my project, I'd need color illustrations to make the most of the "fading" premise. That limits things a little, because many Kindles still read in b&w.
Author:  Varon [ June 21st, 2011, 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I tried it, but got hung up trying to figure out how the panels and scripts worked.
Author:  Elly [ June 21st, 2011, 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Did you check around your library for Christian manga novels or look at the Christian manga website for tips?
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 21st, 2011, 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I will be browsing more on the Christian Manga site, as there are a few graphic novels uploaded there. I also want to read more of the Astro Boy series... now's a good time, I guess! :D

Thanks, Elly!
Author:  Calenmiriel [ June 21st, 2011, 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I'm actually in the same boat you are, Phili. ;) To help press my drawing comfort zone, I'd like to experiment in making my short story "Grey" a manga. No promises on starting and finishing, but I will definitely share it with everyone if I do finish it. (There's no way with camp this summer.)

I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm going to take my short story, create a "screenplay" of it, and sketch a storyboard which will eventually evolve into actual art.

If you want some manga pages to try on here's a link to some templates. ^^
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 21st, 2011, 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Thank you, Calen! I think that's a great idea and a great challenge. I can't wait to see how it ends up! ^^

And thank you for that amazingly helpful link! It looks like there's a ton of material in there...


I talked to my brother, who has read more graphic novels than I have, and he thinks 100 pages is average for a graphic novel. I could get "Faded" into a hundred pages, probably, but 130-150 might be better, and not unreasonable, I would think. I'm thinking of it as 10-15 pages each for a "prologue" and "epilogue," and then 5-7 20ish page episodic chapters in between. I haven't plotted it out on paper yet, just thinking it through in the head...
Author:  Calenmiriel [ June 22nd, 2011, 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
You're very welcome , Phili. :D Glad I could be of assistance.

I stumbled across the templates when I plugged in "manga page template" (or something along those lines) on Google. The only thing about the templates is that you'd have to figure out what template works best for the page(s) you're working on. Either way, it's good practice.

I've read countless amounts of manga it's almost shameful. :rofl: I can't even keep track of all the ones I've read, but it's definitely given me a wide range of variety in story lines and art styles.

One of the manga series I'm collecting averages around 190 some pages. :shock:

~Calen
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ June 24th, 2011, 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Quick rundown of manga lengths in Japan from my limited experience:

1 chapter = about 15-25 pages.
1 volume = about five chapters plus an extra couple pages of funny in-joke-y stuff. (usually about 100-120 pages)

A whole story can span many volumes. For example, Calen has a bunch of Fruits Basket manga volumes - I believe there are more than ten in total.

For Faded, I think you'd want more than 100 pages. Honestly. Manga moves more like film, it's slower than novel.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 24th, 2011, 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Thanks, Mel! You're awesome. ^^ Do you think you would break Faded into multiple volumes, then, or just keep it together in one long volume?
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ June 24th, 2011, 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Philadelphia wrote:
Thanks, Mel! You're awesome. ^^ Do you think you would break Faded into multiple volumes, then, or just keep it together in one long volume?



Multiple volumes. There's a reason the volumes are $10 apiece - they're all pictures and much more expensive to produce than a normal novel. (Double ditto if it's color.)
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 24th, 2011, 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Never thought of multiple volumes, honestly. It would be a big undertaking but... I like big undertakings. :D
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ June 25th, 2011, 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Philadelphia wrote:
Never thought of multiple volumes, honestly. It would be a big undertaking but... I like big undertakings. :D


You're Leah. Of course you like getting in over your head, and swimming to the top. XD
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 25th, 2011, 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
*hugs Melody* :rofl:
Author:  Aragorn [ June 25th, 2011, 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Melody Kondrael wrote:
Philadelphia wrote:
Never thought of multiple volumes, honestly. It would be a big undertaking but... I like big undertakings. :D


You're Leah. Of course you like getting in over your head, and swimming to the top. XD

Exactly. ;) Except for the Leah part. :P

With the length of the story, it does seem like multiple volumes would be necessary.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 25th, 2011, 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Well, I honestly hadn't considered multiple volumes... but it would work, if I can find a willing artist. Now, how many volumes, that is the question...

I suppose, that opens the door for making the story longer. Rather than simplifying it into one volume, I can take the serial-style plot and extend it over more volumes. In which case I probably wouldn't even write the entire thing before having it drawn; just release them one at a time. Huh. Thoughts?

And, Jonathan... Resistance to the Leah-thing is futile. You're not obliged to use it, but... I wouldn't interfere with the others. ;)
Author:  Aragorn [ June 25th, 2011, 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Some might say to write the whole series out first, but that's probably an individual preference and not a necessity. Though if you did write it all in advance, you would know how many volumes would be required.

And as for the other... Resistance might be futile. Having fun with it is not. ;)
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 25th, 2011, 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I would at least make a sketch of the entire series, just to have an idea of what I was getting into. I might not write the script in complete detail or panel before starting on the first one, though.

Oh... *laughs brightly* No contest on that one. ;)
Author:  Aragorn [ June 25th, 2011, 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
That sounds fine. Whatever works for you.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 25th, 2011, 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Thing is, I don't know what works for me yet, so I'm tossing out ideas and getting outside opinions. :D
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ June 25th, 2011, 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Very funny, peoples. You can never escape the Leah and the Mel. <grin>

I'd outline it like a tv series: in segments.

Usually things are outlined in tv a couple seasons at a time. They usually keep on hand a good wrap-up in case they get cancelled. A good manga will do the same.

So what I'd do is write the beginning... and then mark off the rest in segments. Establish what needs to happen for each layer of the story and then take as much time as you need to get there... and make room for extra segments if you have time - but make sure you could wrap it all up in one last volume if you needed to.

Each volume could be a different arc, or you could arc over two or three volumes. Really depends on the writer.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 25th, 2011, 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
That's what I'm thinking. The current plot that I have would take, at max, 3 100-page volumes, I think. So I might just call that good, but leave it open for Carter going back to Erde and having more volumes that way. We'll see how things go!
Author:  Calenmiriel [ June 27th, 2011, 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
@Mel and Phili: The Fruits Basket series is over 20 volumes long. It's not unusual that manga series are several volumes. One-shots are only a volume long. ^^
Author:  The Bard [ June 29th, 2011, 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
I too am on my way to make a graphic novel/web-comic so I'm searching for knowledge too. The only advice I have is get your hands on some graphic novels and start analyzing.
You might read some of the old marvel Spiderman and Fantastic Four comics if you want more of a classical style or you might read some of the newer DC or Dark horse graphic novels if you want more of a darker style.
I really liked MouseGaurd http://www.mouseguard.net/ It is very much like Redwall and has some beautiful drawings.
Also there is a plethora of Webcomics out there to read.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ June 29th, 2011, 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
Thanks, Joe! I need to do just that. I have one or two webcomics bookmarked that I need to read in detail...
Author:  Varon [ June 29th, 2011, 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Writing for Graphic Novels
The older DC comics are good as well, and the newer, darker Superman comics are good for conveying emotion.
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