Holy Worlds Christian Forum :: View topic - He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?

I'd have to say it depends, because honestly (like you said) sometimes it just doesn't work when a character is brought back. When this happens I wonder if the author was (a) too connected to their character to let the story take its course or (b) felt their audience would hate them for killing off a character. Now, neither of these may be true, it's just something I think when this happens sometimes (and I'm not saying I think this every time a character is brought back to life).

As a side note, when a character dies and comes back, if they die a second time (for real or not) I'll tend not to get as upset. Because, now, I have a small hope that this character will come back (since it happened before). Another thing about this "second death" is that it won't have as much impact as their "first death" (and I like creating emotional impact, especially when a character dies).

Thus, I try killing my characters only once

All this to say, sometimes bringing them back does work. And when it does...

Author:	Bethany Faith [ April 17th, 2011, 7:57 am ]
Post subject:	He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Before we begin, let me just say, me and my sister talk about the craziest things sometimes. clears throat Anyhow, I have a bad tendency to (and because I write fantasy it makes it easier to do this) "kill" a character then bring them "back to life" later on in the book. Not like the allegorical Aslan's death kill, I mean, a normal character dies then...something happens...and they're not...dead anymore. Make sense? hopes it does As you can imagine, I also like to read books that do this too. Gandalf's death (LoTR) Marak's death (Lunatic by Ted Dekker) Aslan's death (Narnia) Frodo's death (also LoTR)...well, you get the point, I read a lot of books were someone dies (or you think they died) then they come back to life. So recently I read a Ted Dekker book (as most people who have heard me rant about it know. And...by the way, HE NEVER DID SLAP JOHNIS! cough) and in said book he kills a character I liked. Naturally, (being the crazy fantasy writer that I am) the first thought I have, (and I accidentally say this aloud) "Aww, man! I liked that guy! Dekker better find a loop hole and bring him back to life!". So my sister heard me and she said that she doesn't like it when books do that. I'm inclined to agree that indeed, some book do that and it doesn't really add to the book...but others do that and it adds great interest. Mini-rant aside, I decided this would be an interesting topic to discuss. Hence forth, I as you to state your opinion on said subject...perhaps...do the poll. Either way, I'd love to know what you think. K, done now. Thanks for reading! Bethany Faith

Author:	Lady Vilisse Mimetes [ April 17th, 2011, 11:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I'd have to say it depends, because honestly (like you said) sometimes it just doesn't work when a character is brought back. When this happens I wonder if the author was (a) too connected to their character to let the story take its course or (b) felt their audience would hate them for killing off a character. Now, neither of these may be true, it's just something I think when this happens sometimes (and I'm not saying I think this every time a character is brought back to life). As a side note, when a character dies and comes back, if they die a second time (for real or not) I'll tend not to get as upset. Because, now, I have a small hope that this character will come back (since it happened before). Another thing about this "second death" is that it won't have as much impact as their "first death" (and I like creating emotional impact, especially when a character dies). Thus, I try killing my characters only once All this to say, sometimes bringing them back does work. And when it does...

Author:	Bethany Faith [ April 17th, 2011, 11:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Haha, yah, I think that is one thing I don't do. If I kill my characters multiple times I'm afraid the reader might not get the emotional impact I'm looking for. So one death per MC.

Author:	Lady Carliss [ April 17th, 2011, 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Maybe I could half-kill my characters and then have them pop up again. Carliss

Author:	Lady Vilisse Mimetes [ April 17th, 2011, 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Lady Carliss wrote: Maybe I could half-kill my characters and then have them pop up again. I'm (we're?) not saying you can't kill your character more than once If it flows with your story you should do it.

Holy Worlds Christian Forum https://archive.holyworlds.org/

He's dead!....and now he's back!...what? https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2882	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Kiev Shawn [ April 17th, 2011, 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Vilissë wrote: I'd have to say it depends, because honestly (like you said) sometimes it just doesn't work when a character is brought back. When this happens I wonder if the author was (a) too connected to their character to let the story take its course or (b) felt their audience would hate them for killing off a character. Now, neither of these may be true, it's just something I think when this happens sometimes (and I'm not saying I think this every time a character is brought back to life). As a side note, when a character dies and comes back, if they die a second time (for real or not) I'll tend not to get as upset. Because, now, I have a small hope that this character will come back (since it happened before). Another thing about this "second death" is that it won't have as much impact as their "first death" (and I like creating emotional impact, especially when a character dies). Thus, I try killing my characters only once All this to say, sometimes bringing them back does work. And when it does... Well said, Vili. I most definitely agree with the "second death" part. I'm personally a fan (if you can call it that ) of making/being made to suffer over whether the character will die, and bring them right to the edge. gets back on topic Personally, I think having the audience on an emotional roller coaster or mad at you is what you should be aiming for, depending on your story. I love my characters dearly, but I have several that will die, and I doubt I will bring them back. I wish I could, but I don't think it would add much. Anywho, that's my (repetitive) 2 bits worth for now.

Author:	BushMaid [ April 17th, 2011, 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I would have to say that it depends. If it's a root character (and one that I like very much! ) and if it can be done in an un-clichéd way, I think it's great. The Inkworld Trilogy by Cornelia Funke performed this very well.

Author:	Bethany Faith [ April 17th, 2011, 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
agrees with everyone Don't just love it when you find everyone agreeable?

Author:	BushMaid [ April 17th, 2011, 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
agrees that when everyone is in agreeance things are most agreeable

Author:	Kiev Shawn [ April 17th, 2011, 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
BushMaid wrote: I would have to say that it depends. If it's a root character (and one that I like very much! ) and if it can be done in an un-clichéd way, I think it's great. I agree.

Author:	Lady Eruwaedhiel [ April 18th, 2011, 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I think it depends on what the author plans to do with it and if it's done skillfully. I have never done this, but I did sort of bring one character back (as a wraith) for a brief appearance near the end. She appeared to the man who killed her, no less. You can bet that was a bit shocking. On bringing characters really close to death ... yeah, well ... ain't going there.

Author:	Bethany Faith [ April 18th, 2011, 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Lady Eruwaedhiel wrote: On bringing characters really close to death ... yeah, well ... ain't going there. GOING THERE! On another thread!...that I shall make...eventually.

Author:	Melody Kondrael [ April 18th, 2011, 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I'm a 'depends' person... On one hand, my favorite character from Stargate is Daniel Jackson, who has a death count of something like seven (plus alternate/parallel universe versions of himself, robot copies, and definitely not going to mention the number of times he's LOOKED like he was dead but either recovered, was faking, or had been kidnapped instead). On the other, you really have to stretch to make it an emotional impact every time. <grin> I've got one character who essentially comes back after being dead, but I used a really big loophole which needs snugging up considerably to be the most impacting. I don't really feel like having a deus ex machina moment with my charries. XD Random story analysis that someone may find interesting: Something I've noted is that the character who dies and then comes back tends to be the emotional heart of the story, and/or the moral conscience. Using Stargate for an example here, Daniel is the character who is always the moral guide of the other characters, and tends to be the emotional heart of the story. (unless he's not in the particular episode of course!) When he hurts, the viewers hurt. When he dies, that's when the viewer thinks that all hope is lost; because without Daniel, the emotional character, the story loses something important. When he comes back (through various and sundry far-out means, typically), then you know everything's going to turn out all right. This kind of connection is not made with the other three main characters. They have their own emotional struggles, but it isn't so closely tied to the audience. So if Jack or Sam or Teal'c gets gravely injured or assumed dead, it's not as big of a deal -- you're usually feeling for the characters who are left, not the character who just died. It's different. So if you're going to kill someone off -- think carefully who and why. XD

Author:	Leandra Falconwing [ April 18th, 2011, 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
That's really interesting, Mel. I've never thought of that before. I also voted "it depends" in the poll. I can't currently remember specific examples, but I know I've seen it done in ways that don't bother me at all. I've also seen it done in a way that while it doesn't bother me, it totally takes away all possible emotional impact from a character dying. A while back I watched a video walkthrough with commentary of the video game Final Fantasy IV because I'd started reading a webmanga that was based in that universe. So many characters in the game seemed to die, only to turn up later on just fine. Someone even jumped off an airship way up in the air, holding a bomb. The bomb explodes. Dead character, right? Nope. He shows up later, not in the best of health but very definitely alive. It makes it a little hard to care when someone dies if you're expecting the character to show up again. It worked for the game, but it's probably not the effect you want for a story. One thing I think is important is that there's a reason the character survived/came back to life. And I mean an in-story reason, not just "I couldn't bear to kill him so I made him come back!" The webmanga I mentioned has several characters who have died or seemed to die at some point in their past. One of them has actually died twice, although not in the actual webmanga itself. But there are explanations for why they're still around now, so it's not just "Oh, by the way, I'm back from the dead. Hi everyone!" To sum up my thoughts: if you can have a character die or seem to die, and bring him back without stretching believability too far, no problem. If people are always appearing to die and then coming back, I'm not going to care the next time your MC falls off a cliff. I may still enjoy your story, but you won't have me pacing around and worrying.

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Varon [ April 19th, 2011, 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I don't generally like it when that happens because it's either unabashed allegory or uses ridiculous explanations. I generally like my novels to be more realistic. I'll use Captain America as an example of a well handled death of a character. Apologies if that's a spoiler. Captain America was assassinated (I don't know how) a few years ago in the Marvel universe. The Marvel Universe is still reeling from the death of its greatest hero. The Avengers are having trouble staying together, the world is darker and depressed. Multiple people have tried to bring him back by wearing his costume and using his shield to carry on his mission, but they weren't him. They didn't have the drive, idealism, or patriotism to be him. He makes an appearance to Thor as a ghost, but he's still dead. Rather than avoiding it, the Marvel execs and writers are working on developing the many characters who knew him as they come to terms with Cap's death. Yes, it hurts for him to be dead, but the reader grows with the characters who are still alive. (Rest in Peace Captain America )

Author:	Melody Kondrael [ April 19th, 2011, 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Leandra Falconwing wrote: "I couldn't bear to kill him so I made him come back!" Er, that was my original reason for bringing back this character..... <grin> He's one of my favorites, I didn't want to cut off his story just like that. XD

Author:	Leandra Falconwing [ April 19th, 2011, 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Haha, I should probably modify that. Or maybe just remove it. I think what I really meant was that if there's no rational, in-story way for a character to come back, "because I couldn't bear to have him be dead" isn't a good enough reason. I don't know anymore.

Author:	Willow Wenial Mimetes [ June 14th, 2011, 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I also voted it depends. And here's why. You can't be really dead and then just come back to life with NO consequences. I don't think spirits/souls should work that way. Plus it's boring. Just, "Oh! Hi! I'm back!" That's the kind of ressurection that I hate. (except in the case of Jesus of course. I'm SO glad He did that. ) Now when there are complications in a book because someone went and disrupted the natural balance of the world or used arcane arts and brought someone back to life...THEN it gets interesting. Maybe they're not really themselves? Maybe they're some other spirit trapped in their body? Or maybe coming back from the dead really altered their personality so that there's still the loss of the person they used to be. Or maybe they're angry because they don't WANT to be back having to fight for their lives again. (I already died ONCE! Now I have to die AGAIN?!?!?) Or maybe they come back just fine, but the person that brings them back has to forfeit their life? Anyway, the possibilities are endless, but something as earth shattering as coming back to life shouldn't be so easy as it's often made.

Author:	Varon [ June 14th, 2011, 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I would change my vote to "Depends" as well. Barbossa coming back wasn't that bad, but Captain America's coming back was sort of like rubbing salt into the injury, because we mourned with everyone else in the universe, and then he just came back. I like it, but it hurts. So, it depends.

Author:	Svensteel Mimetes [ June 18th, 2011, 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I normally like it if there is a reason, like Gandalf was ok coming back from the dead... I don't see how he died anyway...

Author:	Camille Esther [ June 30th, 2011, 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
I have to admit, I have a ahem strong attraction towards putting people in reallyreallybadalmostabouttodie/getkilled situations, and then make them recover/survive. My editors forced me to kill at least one person. Which I finally gave in and did, since I didn't need the guy anyway. They wanted me to kill one other guy, but I argued that it was too close to the end for the readers to recover, and there wasn't any point to killing him anyway, so they let me let him live.

Author:	Svensteel Mimetes [ July 1st, 2011, 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: He's dead!....and now he's back!...what?
Killing people off always adds excitement to the story, and makes readers more emotionally involved. When they are brought back to life when wanted to it also keeps them more emotionally involved. Except happy this time! It also keeps them from being too completely depressed.