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| Unfallen Race https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2674 |
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| Author: | Lady Vilisse Mimetes [ March 27th, 2011, 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Unfallen Race |
I got this idea partially from my "Unfallen World" thread. I'm not using the idea in my stories at all, but I thought I'd bring it up for discussion  (I'm not sure if this should go here or in the Peoples, Races, and Tribes forum...move if need be!) What if, somehow, one of your races was unfallen? Yet somehow lived in a fallen world? Among fallen races? I know it makes little sense, but as writers we ask "what if" all the time. How would fallen races act towards the unfallen race? Vice versa? |
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| Author: | Bethany Faith [ March 27th, 2011, 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
That is an interesting question and definitely took some pondering on my part... First off, I don't find this very possible, but for matter of discussion I'll pretend it is.  I think, for one, if we had a fallen and an un-fallen race in one world there would be a lot of conflict between the two races. The fallen race would be very resentful and even envious of the un-fallen race (this could result in quite the problem...). As for how the un-fallen race would react...I think they may wonder what differs them from the other race, but seeing as un-fallen races in general are hard to picture it is even harder for me to figure out how they would react in scenarios. Guess I need a little more ponder time.  Bethany Faith |
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| Author: | Calista Bethelle [ April 12th, 2011, 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
That is a very interesting idea, Vilissë, and it reminds me of the elves in Lord of the Rings. I imagine an unfallen race would behave much as Adam and Eve did before the fall. It would most likely be a pretty innocent race. |
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| Author: | Riniel Jasmina [ April 22nd, 2011, 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
I actually have two unfallen races. (see my creation of Lor-Amar piece) I have them more like the elves in Lord of the Rings (without the little pride issues here and there as well as other subtle sins) than like Adam and Eve because I believe God still meant for Adam and Eve to mature and learn and not always stay the same way. They live in seclusion from human beings (who don't know they exist) and have very little contact with the outside world because, due to the fallen nature of all the world besides themselves, corruption can rub off on them. They still wear clothes but their clothes are fashioned from plant fiber rather than animal skin. They don't die of old age or disease but can be killed by other sentient races. The animals are more comfortable around them than around other races. They are greatly interested in nature and care for their creatures but still supplement their diets with small amounts of meat. They offer sanctuary to a small number of people in times of need but they can sense an evil will and may kill such an individual on sight to keep from being corrupted. |
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| Author: | Calista Bethelle [ April 22nd, 2011, 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Riniel Jasmina wrote: I have them more like the elves in Lord of the Rings (without the little pride issues here and there as well as other subtle sins) than like Adam and Eve because I believe God still went for Adam and Eve to mature and learn and not always stay the same way. True. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if Adam and Eve had not sinned, and how differently we would live. I think the difficulty of an unfallen race is the fact that they would be likely to get contaminated by the rest of the world - thus it makes sense for them to avoid people. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 11th, 2011, 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
It doesn't make much sense, but suppose it would be possible. They would have to refrain from most contact with the fallen race(s). Of course, that would make it hard to figure out the Fall in that world. |
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| Author: | Riniel Jasmina [ May 12th, 2011, 8:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Yes, keeping them separate from fallen races is easier than the fallen world on a whole scale. Life would still be harder for them than it should be and they could still become fallen so I would think an unfallen race would have groups that had fallen. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 12th, 2011, 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
But wouldn't that mean the whole race would fall, like through Adam. "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—" Romans 5:12 And then it goes on to talk about life through one man, Christ. And then you have salvation. If they didn't all fall through one man, do you need Christ to become each race and die for each race? |
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| Author: | Riniel Jasmina [ May 12th, 2011, 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
It doesn't have to be that way though. If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned and had children and their children sinned they wouldn't be fallen. If there is a whole tribe of unfallen people and two of them fall then all their children would be fallen but I would think the rest of that race could continue unfallen. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 12th, 2011, 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
So they continue on, to watch their children die, as they live forever? And on a bigger scale, if one race fell, but another didn't, and then there was another race and they fell as well, but later, how would Christ come to save them. He had to become human and live a perfect life to die and bring salvation for us, how would that work with multiple races? Should I move this to Theology? |
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| Author: | Riniel Jasmina [ May 12th, 2011, 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Perhaps. As long as all races have souls and a chance to choose good or evil I don't think the race the Messiah is would make a difference. It would be sort of like the Jews and Gentiles when it comes to salvation I would think. Everyone has a chance but Jesus went to the Jews first because they were God's chosen. I would think it would work the same way just with more diversity between races. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 12th, 2011, 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Even if all the races fell separately? |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 12th, 2011, 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Okay, I moved it. |
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| Author: | Riniel Jasmina [ May 12th, 2011, 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Sure, because in the end the ones who will fall will fall and need redemption and Jesus conquered sin once and for all. If a race never falls their situation is still less than perfect so they will need to be brought out of this life eventually. Plus if they're unfallen they wouldn't reject the Messiah. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 13th, 2011, 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Thanks! This discussion really helped, now I figured out a bunch of stuff for my story. |
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| Author: | Lyndsey [ June 21st, 2011, 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
I don't know if you consider them a 'race' but angels can be fallen or unfallen. We know that we entertain them "unawares" and are encouraged to offer hospitality to all, for that reason. The unfallen could very well be living among us, if we consider angels as a race. They came down and married the humans early on. We know that. Perhaps they are still coming down and marrying humans. I suppose whether they 'fall' depends not on their proximity to sin, but whether they succumb. If all angels who came into proximity of sin became fallen, then Michael and Gabriel et al would be in trouble. Just thinking out loud. |
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| Author: | Svensteel Mimetes [ June 21st, 2011, 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Most of my world is fallen where certain races are not. They normally completely avoid each other other than for trading. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ June 22nd, 2011, 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Lyndsey wrote: The unfallen could very well be living among us, if we consider angels as a race. They came down and married the humans early on. We know that. We do not know that, although many theorize that, since normal humans don't typically produce giant Nephilim babies. |
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| Author: | Lyndsey [ June 22nd, 2011, 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Griffin wrote: Lyndsey wrote: The unfallen could very well be living among us, if we consider angels as a race. They came down and married the humans early on. We know that. We do not know that, although many theorize that, since normal humans don't typically produce giant Nephilim babies. Gen 6 says: "The number of people on earth began to grow, and daughters were born to them.2 When the sons of God saw that these girls were beautiful, they married any of them they chose.3 The Lord said, "My Spirit will not remain in human beings forever, because they are flesh. They will live only 120 years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also later. That was when the sons of God had sexual relations with the daughters of human beings. These women gave birth to children, who became famous and were the mighty warriors of long ago." NCV I would interpret this passage to mean that angels came and married humans and had babies. So because I believe this to be true, I say I know this. I understand there are some who don't believe it to be true, but merely allegorical. So it is possible that we can't 'know' for certain. It also says, 'in those days' and 'also later'; Couldn't we be later? They don't have to be giant babies to be mighty warriors. In Hebrews 13:2 "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." KJV Do you think the author of Hebrews would suggest this if it were only one or two around? Perhaps there are quite a few living along side us. We don't know. But can we say it is impossible they are living among us? |
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| Author: | Lady Vilisse Mimetes [ June 22nd, 2011, 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Please remember that this thread is for discussing unfallen races in a fictional sense We're not discussing if they exist in this world (whole different topic).
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ June 23rd, 2011, 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
*nods * That verse can also be interpreted other ways, I've researched it, but Villi is right. We are discussing Unfallen Races in a fictional sense, so let's steer this back on topic. 
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| Author: | Rachel Newhouse [ June 23rd, 2011, 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
If anyone would like to continue the angel topic, there is a thread specifically devoted to them here: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1385 Okay, I'm done assisting the rerail. Carry on. 
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ June 27th, 2011, 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unfallen Race |
Oh okay, sorry. I didn't realize it was just in a fantasy sense. I'll go visit that topic. |
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