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Characteristic Swordfight Move
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Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ December 31st, 2009, 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Characteristic Swordfight Move
I am in need of a characteristic sword-fight move. My situation is this:
Arionwyn, a young Dragonrider in training, meets a new Dragonrider who arrives in the military camp where she is being trained (Elric is his name). They become good friends, and Elric challenges her to a 'duel', like a training session but more serious. Arionwyn invites Dirk, one of her friends, to see the match. Dirk is a somewhat grizzled battle veteran, fatherly and very good with a sword.
While watching the fight, Dirk notices Elric using a move that is characteristic of Andunians, stops the fight and takes Arionwyn aside to tell her why she can't associate with Elric: Dirk suspects he's working for the other side as either a spy or trying to lure her into betraying her loyalty to the Prince, who was the heir to the throne until the Andunians invaded and took over. (Elric actually is as Dirk suspects, only Arionwyn can't see it. Lovely conflicts ensue . . .)
Here's the problem: I know next to nothing about sword-fights. :D
The move Elric is using has to be
A. Brutal, cruel, etc. It won't do Arionwyn any harm because they used magic to block the blades as a safeguard before starting, but ordinarily this move would be devastating.
B.Something common to the Andunians, but not something the Carseldians would have adopted. The Andunians are a rather rough culture, Carseldians more refined.
C.Something common enough that Dirk would recognize it, and unusual enough that it would be a new move for the reader. (This is more for me than for you guys . . .)
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated!

Lady Eruwaedhiel
Author:  beckyminor [ January 1st, 2010, 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
I'll have to think on the combat maneuver...nothing clear is jumping to mind right now, but I did want to mention a name issue with "Elric."

Michael Moorcock has written an entire series of books about an antihero with the same name. In fantasy circles, I think the name is too prominent to get away with. :(

I like your premise for this scene, though, with the way the specific maneuver belies your Elric's background. Sounds like a good breeding ground for trouble. :)
Author:  Neil of Erk [ January 1st, 2010, 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Well, I've done some sword-fighting before, and no particular moves come to mind. Generally, in my limited experience of swordplay, it's not so much particular movements which are more brutal than others, but generally a combination of a persons tactics as a whole which can be brutal or refined.

There are several tactics which a considered 'dirty' in that they are sneaky. Sharpened shield edges, holding small dagger behind the shield, and other similar tactics. Holding and dagger behind the shield is a particularly effective tactic, because people generally don't worry about a shield hurting them, and you don't normally expect someone to use their shield like a sword.

The problem with trying to invent a 'cruel' move, is that in war, if you want to stay alive, you aren't going to worry to much about whether the move you use is 'noble' or 'cruel.'

Of course, he could try to stab her in the back, which is one of the few moves that could actually be condemned in a code of battle.

Elric could also use large weapons, and have a kind of swing-and-hack tactic. If a person is particularly strong, then there is very little even a well trained person can do when fighting them. I've seen people use this style, and its brutal.

So, to make my long post short, the only move which is particularly dishonorable is stabbing someone in the back. Therefor, you may want to make the problem his style as a whole.
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ January 1st, 2010, 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Interesting. I'll have to think about that, Neil. Oh, you've done swordfighting? I'm sooooo jealous. I'd like to learn, but there's nobody in the middle of nowhere (which is where I live :P ) who'd be interested.

Too bad about the Elric name. It was one of my favorites. :( I tried mixing it up with the Chaotic Shiny generator, and here's what I got:
Errec
Elroc
Erric
Elrec
Also tried babynames.com and got Edric.
Others:
Alric
Ulric
Think any of those would work?
Author:  Whythawye [ January 2nd, 2010, 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Elric is a perfectly valid name derived from some Old English (Saxon) names that mean King. If you spell it right and introduce it right you should be able to use it without impunity.

As for the sword fight.

You do not need to describe the move at all, especially if you do not know much about sword fighting. Too often authors will attempt to describe what people do in battles blow by blow (literally), and helplessly mangle the scene. This is not to say that this never should be done, as several authors can do it with great effect (William Goldwyn in Princess Bride and Louis L'Amour in Marching Drum are prime examples of this).

Simply say that he used a cruel/brutal move, without going into detail. It is not necessary to do much more than give the essence of what happens. You could even leave describing the essence of the move completely out of the picture, and focus entirely on Dirk as he watches the duel. This last is a powerful means of getting it across.

With all that said, I agree with Neil's suggestion. However, if it is more of a fencing duel that is going on, you could try this:

"Elric utterly disregarded her parry. He changed guard and lunged in on her breastbone in a vicious dive. She fell back, astonished and angry at his neglect of the rules."

Just a snippet to give the idea. See, in fencing there are fixed rules of how and when you change guard and when you get to attack and defend. It is like chess, and what Elric just did in my snippet above is equal (in my understanding) to a player moving two pieces simultaneously when it wasn't his turn. See?
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ January 3rd, 2010, 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Again, interesting. :D I didn't know you'd read the Princess Bride. Great book and movie.
I actually ended up having her disarmed, holding up her hands in surrender, then Elric grabbing hold of her hair and putting a dagger to her throat. Does that work? (He lost his temper when she made him lose his sword, and forgot where he was and what he was doing. I can change it if need be.)
And I might also mention that his real name is not Elric. If you've read enough of my story from the Story Excerpts thread, you should get a cold chill when you find out that his name is Iri. :)
I saw on this site that the derivative name was Aelfric, which means "noble elf ruler". Which is neat, since he's an elven prince in disguise. ;)
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ January 12th, 2010, 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
I just realized... Elric.... totally makes me think of FMA, even though I don't like that manga.
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ January 13th, 2010, 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Sapphira wrote:
I just realized... Elric.... totally makes me think of FMA, even though I don't like that manga.

What's FMA?
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ January 13th, 2010, 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Sorry, usually the only time I mention FMA is on a manga message board. It's Full Metal Alchemist. The MC's last name is Elric.
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ January 13th, 2010, 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Hm. Last name? That's kind of strange. I always thought of it as a first name.
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ January 13th, 2010, 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
I'm pretty sure it's Ed and Al's last name.... but anyway, I'm going off-topic, here...
Author:  Armorbearer [ January 14th, 2010, 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
The signature move could be a brawling style attack rather than a sword move, like charging in and getting under her defenses. Or it could be a maneuver that breaks the opponent's weapon and is thus banned in tournament style fighting.
Author:  Ciela Rose [ January 15th, 2010, 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
I was thinking on Elric's name, and the other name options you threw out there. What about Ulric? I think its Germanic, and it comes from their word 'wolf'. I think. It would kind of suit, because if he is a villain pretending to be good, he's like a wolf in sheeps clothing . . . just a thought.

I know nothing about swordfights, except that they are really neat looking ;) . But maybe he could have a distinctive twirl. Like in the middle of combat, he spins his wrist, and the sword twirls in the opposite direction which it would have gone otherwise . . . .

But like I said, I know nothing of this sort of topic, but good luck with whatever you do!
Author:  Shadow Wolf [ February 28th, 2010, 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
The swordfighting part isn't too hard. He get stuck in a sword lock with her, both struggling to push the other's sword back and he twists his hand away (pushing her sword sideways) and strikes her in the stomach with the hilt/pommel whichever word you prefer.
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ July 15th, 2010, 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
Okay, I know this is a rather old topic, but I recently discovered a new tactic that might work: Halfswording. How's this: (this is a recent excerpt, but Iri/Elric uses halfswording here and I would rather post an already written section than one that's swimming around in my head. :) ) This is Iri and his father.

Fairivel stepped forward and said, "You know...it's been a while since I had a real fight. Would you like to --"

 "Sure." Iri grinned, seeming to have forgotten his grief of a moment earlier. "Just watch out. I don't know my own strength."

  Fairivel laughed, and with no further ceremony they engaged.

 The elf instantly noticed that though Iri was younger, more reckless and with not quite as much strength behind his blows, he fought with a deadly skill and grace that the elven lord found hard to match. He felt Iri holding back, testing him. After a minute Fairivel disengaged, panting. "Who taught you to fight like that?"

 "Various people," Iri said evasively, and without warning advanced again. Fairivel brought in a high vertical cut. Iri grabbed the blade of his own sword halfway down and held the weapon above his head to absorb the blow, then with a slight twist he caught his father's blade in one of the notches of the dragon-wing crossguard. Fairivel tried to pull away, but found that Iri had swung his leg around behind and now locked ankles with him. Fairivel lost his balance, remaining upright only by holding onto his sword, stuck as it was.

 Iri turned in the space of a heartbeat and, still gripping his own blade with his free hand, jabbed the point toward Fairivel's face. Fairivel tensed for the impact, knowing it was inevitable, but at the last possible instant Iri jerked both his leg and Fairivel's forward. Fairivel lost his grip on his weapon and sprawled backward, avoiding Iri's steel by the space of a few inches.

 Fairivel lay flat on his back on the stone, waiting for his heartbeat to slow down. He reached up and felt his face to make sure it was still whole. No blood marred his fair skin. He struggled to sit.

 "That," Iri said, helping him to stand, "is halfswording. The Andunians excel at it."

 "Don't do that again," Fairivel snapped, retrieving his blade and sheathing it.

 "I was making a point," Iri said cooly.

 "That same point nearly cut me in half," Fairivel growled. The whole maneuver had been so violent, so out of character, that it left him quite shaken.

 "I wouldn't have let it touch you."

 "So you say. Don't do that again."

 "Fine."
Author:  Armorbearer [ July 15th, 2010, 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
That works very well, and it makes Iri seem very menacing, good job.
Author:  Varon [ July 15th, 2010, 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
That would be a good move to use. It's effective, brutal, and somewhat cheating. I don't know the names of any sword-moves because you can't really find them.
Author:  Whythawye [ October 6th, 2010, 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Characteristic Swordfight Move
In book four of the Rurouni Kenshin series, he does a similar thing to have a tighter defense against a kadachi.

Good idea! :)
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