| Holy Worlds Christian Forum https://archive.holyworlds.org/ | |
| Kevin Bauder on Fantasy https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2405 | Page 1 of 1 | 
| Author: | Yehoshua [ March 4th, 2011, 3:28 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| I recently stumbled upon something quite interesting. Some of you may be familiar with Dr. Kevin Bauder. He's big in certain Christian circles. He's a pastor, author, speaker and seminary president. While I don't agree with all his theology, I've always thought of Bauder as an absolute genius. He recently did a six part series called "The Christian and Fantastic Literature". I thought this was interesting for several reasons. One, the fact that a learned doctor of theology would take a break from arguing Calvinism/Arminianism and creation/evolution to talk about dragons and writing styles says something of fantasy's impact. Two, despite the fact that Bauder gave fantasy a very fair treatment, something unusual in his circles. Here's the articles in case you're interested: Part 1: Definitions and Questions Part 2: Evaluating Fantastic Writing Part 3: Magic in Fantasy Part 4: Pilgrims Progress Part 5: Lord of the Rings Part 6: Chronicles of Narnia I think he does a good job at dispelling a part of reservations may Christians have about fantasy as well as raising some very important questions. Hope you all enjoy.   | |
| Author: | Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ March 4th, 2011, 10:31 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| Awesome - I'm definitely going to have to read those, when I get the time.  eruheran | |
| Author: | Yehoshua [ March 6th, 2011, 6:05 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| Haha. Yeah, I should add that I certainly don't expect everyone to read them as it is a good deal of reading. However, I found that it was worth the time and wanted to make it available to anyone who so desired. | |
| Author: | Aemi [ March 8th, 2011, 1:10 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| I read 'em. They were really good. Gave me some good things to think about. I especially appreciated his explanation of the difference between the magic we have in the real world, which is demonic, and the "magic" of well written fantasy, which can be symbolic or allegorical. I found Mr. Bauder's review of "The Chronicles of Narnia" very interesting. I have no recollections of any profanities in the books, but that might be because my father read most of them to me. Or I was too young and innocent to recognize them. I do remember the incident with the demon worshiper being accepted into Aslan's country, but Daddy made sure to set me straight on that point. It really was good to have a wise adult read those books with me. Plus it was fun. Daddy would read them to me and my sisters as we cleaned up the kitchen after lunch. Those are sweet memories. | |
| Author: | Celearas [ March 8th, 2011, 11:02 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| I think it was just something like "By Jove." That's the only thing I can think of. I know my mom used to have some qualms about that, but I've never really seen a problem. The magic one was very good, though I do wish he'd written his thoughts on magic from an uspecified source or that's unherited, like in Harry Potter. And on magic that's just power. Not from God or the devil, just something you have. It would've been interesting to see what he thought. I didn't think they were extremely in-depth, but they were good overviews and a nice change from the usual stuff you get about how fantasy is terrible and should never be read and suchlike. | |
| Author: | Melody Kondrael [ March 8th, 2011, 6:11 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| I read the part on Narnia and LotR (I was busy. XD). The profanities in Narnia are mostly things like "by Aslan" and a couple more obscure things which aren't profanities IIRC... and one abbreviated d-word in SC for sure... but I read them since I was about six; didn't even notice. Emeth, well, that's a whole big can of worms, but Lewis didn't believe in universalism. <smile> I read some interesting stuff on the topic, but I also never took it to mean that 'good' heathens would be saved. The idea I got from it was that perhaps there is a way for some of those who have never heard the gospel to be saved, but it's God's business and not ours -- we still are obligated to spread the gospel anyhow. | |
| Author: | Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ March 14th, 2011, 11:32 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| I forgot about these! *bumps to top of reading list* eruheran | |
| Author: | Aemi [ December 25th, 2011, 11:43 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| I also really appreciated his review of The Lord of the Rings, mostly because I love those books, and it's great to know that he loves them, too.   | |
| Author: | Seer of Endor [ December 29th, 2011, 8:57 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| Moved to Village Lore. | |
| Author: | kingjon [ December 31st, 2011, 3:25 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| The links in the original posts in the thread are by now broken (404); it was simple enough for me to read them via the Internet Archive's "Wayback Machine", but if the articles are more permanently archived elsewhere I'd appreciate updated links. I think that Bauder's condemnation of Lewis's "inclusivism" in The Last Battle is in error. The position that Bauder describes is indeed plainly heretical, but it's not at all the position that Lewis is advocating in the controversial scene of Emeth's meeting with Aslan. Lewis does not say that "whatever worship was offered sincerely to Tash was really offered to Aslan." If Lewis had believed that, many of the Calormenes would have been there, instead of only the one. Instead, I think Lewis is applying the Biblical principle that "by their fruits ye shall know them"---that there is a qualitative difference between the worship that the true God and the false god require, and Emeth, believing Tash to be the true, offered the worship that Aslan found acceptable, was accepted by Aslan. And I'm somewhat surprised that Bauder missed this, since in the first (introductory) post he mentioned Charles Williams, and Lewis describes a similar but more radical theme in Williams' poetry in the Arthurian Torso. And Bauder is plainly wrong when he says that "Lewis intended Aslan to be a metaphor for Christ." It's been well-established (over and over) that Aslan is not a symbol, metaphor, "type", or (least of all) an allegorical representation of Christ; Aslan is the Second Person of the Trinity, incarnate in the form of a lion. Lastly (ignoring the rankling of my pet-peeve by his consistent misunderstanding of what a true allegory is and is not), I think Bauder doesn't give enough weight to what words are used in the secondary-world's usus loquendi. His main point---that using words such as "magic", "wizard", "witch", and so on to describe its (to use this forum's term of art) cobha ought not necessarily condemn the work---is spot-on, but I think he ought to have considered the objection more seriously and charitably instead of dismissing its most trivial form. One might rightly be concerned if a Christian fantasy author included a mysterious but unmistakably good group called "the Geomancers", for example; a bookish-but-naive reader would be likely to look the term up, and would encounter descriptions of an ancient form of divination, which he might decide to experiment with. | |
| Author: | Aemi [ December 31st, 2011, 10:03 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Kevin Bauder on Fantasy | 
| kingjon wrote: One might rightly be concerned if a Christian fantasy author included a mysterious but unmistakably good group called "the Geomancers", for example; a bookish-but-naive reader would be likely to look the term up, and would encounter descriptions of an ancient form of divination, which he might decide to experiment with.Right. As Christian authors, we must be careful that our readers know there is no equivalent cobha in this world. J.K. Rowling was not.   | |
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ] | 
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ | |