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| Editing Tips? https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=187 | Page 1 of 1 | 
| Author: | Arias Mimetes [ November 25th, 2009, 4:21 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Editing Tips? | 
| Okay, so are there any certain things I need to look for when I start editing my story? I didn't think there was really a certain way to do it, since stories are all different, but I thought there might be things I need to check, other than grammar and sentence structure. | |
| Author: | StoryGirl [ November 25th, 2009, 4:45 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Here are some tips. (This was the "guidlines" for editing on the OYAN forum.) Quote: Chapter One 1. Concentrate the first four pages. This is probably more than a publisher would look at, and certainly more than a casual reader would browse through when looking for something to read. 2. Look at the first sentence. Is it interesting all on its own? Does it imply a question? Does it grab the reader by the throat and hint at things to come? Can you make the very first sentence more compelling? Can you make it memorable? If not, change it. Find the most interesting first sentence you can think of. 3. Does the first page answer the basic questions the reader wants to know? (Obviously you don't want to come out and say these things, you want to imply them.) a. What's going on? (what's the basic conflict?) b. What genre am I in? c. Who am I supposed to care about and why should I care? 4. Use no more than three adjectives per page in the first four pages. 5. Destroy every was and had. 6. Eliminate any hint of telling. You can tell later if you have to. In the first four pages, show everything, even if it means you are raising a lot of questions by leaving out information. In other words, use only detial or dialog in the first four pages. 7. Use precise and unexpected details on every page. Go through every sentence and ask yourself if the details you use are interesting, precise and unexpected. If not, change them. Always strive to be more specific. 8. Eliminate every adverb. Adverbs are your sworn enemies. Kill them on sight. That should keep you busy of the first chapter for a while. I'll post more later. | |
| Author: | beckyminor [ November 25th, 2009, 6:24 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Storygirl gave some good tips there, but I do have to drop my two cents worth of qualifiers on a couple of them. First: The adjectives thing: It's a matter of taste. I know I tend to be a little liberal with my adjectives, but to put a cap on them is tricky. Yes, if you're writing a brisk tale in a modern setting, you can sweep the reader along with next to no adjectives. But if you're immersing them in a totally alien world to what we know here on earth, descriptors will be necessary...especially to accomplish the earlier goals of establishing setting and genre. Second: While I am quick to jump all over being verbs as main verbs in a sentence, advising a writer to reword to find a more active verb, there is a time when you simply must use had or has, and that's in the past perfect tense. Sometimes you need to refer to an action your character has done in a previous timeframe of the story, and if you don't use past perfect: i.e. "He had purchased the armor from a reputable smith in Myslapten and therefore could not understand why it deteriorated so quickly." If you say "He purchased," that noun-verb combination implies that the action takes place in the time frame that is "now occurring" in a story written in past tense. (Which most are.) So, I would say, avoid "He had a cold" as a use of had, but IMHO, it should get a pass if you need to go past-perfect. Last: (This is actually more of an agreement) Adverbs. Yes, at times an adverb can be a crutch to prop up lazy writing. Better to find a way to make the statement in a way that eliminates as many adverbs as possible. My personal pet peeve: adverbs in dialogue tags. It's so much better to put the bite in your speaker's word choices than it is to say " she said bitingly." (Okay, so that was an especially atrocious example, but I think it therefore amplifies my point.  My only qualifier here is that there are times that an adverb is needed. No part of speech is bad in and of itself. It's lazy usage that makes adverbs the villain of the contemporary literary world. As for other issues I'd say to watch out for: POV is one of the biggies. If you don't have a handle on that concept, read up! (I recommend Orson Scott Card's Characters and Viewpoint for starters.) POV errors will kill your manuscript in the eyes of many editors. Also...passive voice, in the classic sense where the subject is not the thing doing the acting, but rather is acted upon. "The battle was fought by the orcs and the men of the southern plains." SOme examples won't be so obvious, but most of the time, you can reword to make the subject active. An occasional interjection of passive voice can add punch, but too much of it makes me close a book, to be honest. And last: search for the word "that." You'd be surprised how many times it sneaks into a sentence where it's not needed. Okay, enough from me. "Blah, blah, blah..."   | |
| Author: | Arias Mimetes [ November 25th, 2009, 11:26 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Okay, thanks  Looks like it'll probably be best to go one page at a time, get them fixed, then read the chapter as a whole, etc. Checking for passive voice... *shudders*... lol, I never was good at that at all... And is there any reason at all why I shouldn't post this story on my blog eventually? I know of a couple people who've said they want to read it. | |
| Author: | Whythawye [ November 26th, 2009, 9:44 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Sapphira: Only post it if you do not want to publish it via a publisher. If you are going to self-publish, it might be okay. Basically post it on your blog to get feedback and an audience. About the rules: I disagree with a lot of them. No surprise there. Adverbs are a perfectly fine part of speech. Bad writing makes adverbs bad, adverbs do not make writing bad. Adjectives are crucial to good description (read Zane Grey or any of the older great writers if you are unsure). Actually, they kind of are description. Linking verbs are fine. If you do not agree with me on any of these points, go read C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, Victor Hugo, etc. and see what they do. | |
| Author: | Arias Mimetes [ November 26th, 2009, 2:56 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| I think grammar-wise, I'll only change things that are obviously written incorrectly. I never was good at picking through adverbs and such anyway (yeah, I know, I need to practice :P), and most of the time they seem to fit. I noticed a couple spelling errors and typos when I read the first chapter over last night, so I corrected those. Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote: Sapphira: Only post it if you do not want to publish it via a publisher. If you are going to self-publish, it might be okay. Basically post it on your blog to get feedback and an audience. Okay, thanks. I heard something about that (copyright issues or something?), but I wasn't sure. How likely is it to get something published? I think it would be cool, but I've also heard it's hard to find a publisher (and I really don't know how many people would actually read my story anyway). I thought about looking at self-publishing someday, but didn't know much about that either. | |
| Author: | beckyminor [ November 30th, 2009, 3:36 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Jay is right...if you want to submit your work to a publisher someday, having put a significant portion on your blog for public consumption might get sticky. Traditional publishers don't want to risk folks not buying your book because they've already read a lot of it on your blog...and there maybe other, underlying copyright issues, depending on which blog service you use. The legalese about who owns what you post on your "free blog" is very convoluted, so when in doubt, don't post it. Alternately, you can offer the excerpts as a download to select people, and that will let folks read your work without getting into copyright snares. If you want to self publish, then it doesn't much matter what you do. But beware...the vast majority of publishing gurus right now say there is no market for self published fiction. And self publishing can get very pricey, if you don't watch out for the million scam operations that are out there. If you want to do it right, make sure your book is professionally edited, hire artists and layout people for the cover and text...well, you can see how expensive that would get. You could quite possibly sink a lot of money into the process that will be very hard, if not impossible to make back. On the other hand, it is very hard to get traditionally published, but I am of the belief that the challenge refines the writer's craft. If you are going to get your book up to snuff so it stands out amidst thousands of manuscripts that cross editors' desks in the course of a year, then you have really accomplished something to be proud of. But don't let my dose of realism snuff your creative flame, for sure. It is good (and important) to know what your goals are. If you are writing for your own pleasure and the pleasure of those you know or draw into reading your work in an informal way, then that's great and valid. But if you want to have a book on bookstore shelves...that is a much longer haul, fraught with challenges as well as great rewards, IMHO. (All this coming from someone who is just beginning to send her first manuscript out to editors. But I hang around a lot of published writers, so I'm just regurgitating what they tell me, for what it's worth.) | |
| Author: | Skathi [ April 26th, 2011, 3:06 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Okay, it's been about two years since anyone has posted on this thread, but I'm going to anyway, because I love the topic! This is the way I go about editing. 1. Don't over edit.   2. Regarding hases and wases... there's a time and a place, but keep a lead on them! 3. Adjectives and adverbs... make sure you can't do without 'em before you use them... and then use the exact one you need, not almost exactly the one you need. 4. Go by intuition. It's a wonderful thing. If you're unsure about something, and you keep it in, someone's sure to pick up on it! | |
| Author: | Sienna North [ April 26th, 2011, 3:19 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| *2 years late: well, why not?* Audience: Consider your audience when thinking about how to edit adverbs/adjectives/passive voice/etc. For example, Tolkien & co. wrote in a time when their audience was used to "flowery" language, and when publishers were willing to publish it  . Now, however, modern readers tend to read {and thus prefer} clipped prose in keeping with modern publishing guidelines {as outlined by StoryGirl}. Still, if you can find both an audience who likes "old-fashioned" writing, and a publisher willing to publish it, then go ahead and fly with your preferences! *If any lingering confusion remains within the abyss of this topic, perhaps this post has provided a filament of light* | |
| Author: | Evening L. Aspen [ May 3rd, 2011, 10:18 pm ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| Since everyone else here has given great advice on editing nuances, I shall step out of character and attempt to give some systematic advice. (Advice on how to go about editing.) This is all stuff I've learned from my writing teacher. I have yet to apply it to my own novels (because they haven't been drafted yet), so I'm not speaking from personal experience. I'm only passing along what my teacher imparted to me. The basic idea is to start big and get smaller as you go. Think of the editing process as a giant funnel; you deal with all the big stuff at the top, and slowly your edits get smaller and smaller until you're making nearly microscopic changes at the end. "Starting big" means that you ignore all those nasty typos, lopsided sentences, and formatting oops and concentrate instead on overall story flow and character development. It might help to go back to your character notes and compare them with your manuscript. Did the characters turn out the way you expected them? Are they consistent within themselves? Do their arcs make sense? What about your plot? Is it holding together logically? Did any unexpected twists mess with your overarching themes? Now is the time to look at how your story looks as a whole; a satellite view, if you will. If you make whatever storyline edits you need to make now, it will help avoid confusion later on in the editing process. Your second stop is to edit structure. We're not on grammar or spelling yet! This is when you get to play with those lopsided sentences and scenes that just didn't come out right. Tweak your style as needed. If you feel a scene needs more suspense, less description, brisker action, or whatever else, this is the time to add it. Now we finally come to grammar and spelling. (This is the part which detail-obsessors like me seem to do first as a knee-jerk reaction to the word "editing".) Now you get to wipe away those jagged red lines, fix punctuation, and all that other fun stuff. At this point it's usually a good idea to turn your manuscript over to a few test readers. They should keep an eye out for all three things: story flow, scene structure, and grammar/spelling. It's usually a good idea to ask them to email you feedback or "turn in" a marked copy of your novel in paper format. And that's pretty much it. I feel as though I've missed a step somewhere in there. I'll dig up my old binder at home when I get the time. | |
| Author: | Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ May 4th, 2011, 7:12 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| I agree with what you said, although I generally consider that first part of the funnel to be revising. The revisions may be as rough (edit-wise) as the first draft, but they make the story and characters flow better. eru | |
| Author: | Sienna North [ May 5th, 2011, 4:39 am ] | 
| Post subject: | Re: Editing Tips? | 
| I'm agreed with eru on that. I can't relax enough to focus on the big picture with nasty goblinlike fanged commas and exclamation points jumping out from invisible hiding places all over the text. But generally I think, Eve, you've definitely got the revision plan right! | |
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