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Backstory Problem - how old?
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Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 26th, 2010, 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Backstory Problem - how old?
I am reworking the backstory for my fantasy novel, shortening it from a trilogy to one book. I decided the purpose of the first two books was only to hold backstory for the third book, so I am simplifying and condensing the backstory to fit in a prologue. In so doing, however, I've crammed events together and run into a logic issue. Here's the short version:

In the prologue, the country of Alaidia is crowning their new king, the father of Nathan (an MC). Attending the coronation are two other MCs - Mark (a cousin-something of Nathan) and Peter (the crown prince of Alaidia's fief). On the night of the coronation, Mark's uncle kills Nathan's parents, seizes the throne, and sends Nathan into hiding. Nathan does not come into contact with Mark and Peter until they are all in the 18-21 age range.

Here's the catch. When they reunite, they can't recognize each other at first.

Nathan, when he realizes who he's dealing with, tells them a false name and history, and they temporarily believe him because they don't recognize him. Peter and the rest of the court is clueless; something tips Mark off, and he reveals it all.

My initial thought was to have the kids be old enough in the prologue to display complicated friendship issues, foretelling their future relationships. However, if I make them too old (or too chummy) in the prologue, it doesn't make sense why they don't recognize each other more easily later.

So my question is - how young should they be in the prologue to make it reasonable that they don't recognize each other when they're 18+?

I'm also open to alternate prologues. I want the beginning of the book to be dynamic like the rest of the story, so I don't want a cliche beginning. It might be better if I don't show the revolt at all, just reveal it gradually in the narrative. I still have to decide when and how it happened, though.

Ideally, Nathan lived long enough in royalty that he remembers it fairly clearly. If he was too young when he fled, he wouldn't remember anything - and that would give him too much innocence. I need him to be more bitter.

As one last thought - Peter is the MC of this book. Ideally, the prologue (if I do one) is primarily from his POV, though I do rotate POV during the book.

Thoughts?
Author:  Riniel Jasmina [ November 26th, 2010, 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
I'm not sure how young you want them to be but 11 is a pretty decent age for them to have last seen each other and not recognize the other at 18+. Not sure if that helps at all but it's the best I have for now.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 26th, 2010, 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
11 is one of the ages I was considering, but I wasn't sure if that was too old. So the opinion was helpful - thanks!
Author:  Manda Kondrael [ November 26th, 2010, 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
I'd say someplace between nine and eleven. :)
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ November 26th, 2010, 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Same here. I was thinking 9-11. It would depend on the characters and what they have been through. If you had Peter be 10, he would probably remember it enough to be bitter about it later on, if he didn't think so right then.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 26th, 2010, 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Thanks very much, you two! If 9-11 is reasonable, that will work very nicely and make me quite happy. :D
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ November 26th, 2010, 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
You're welcome! I know how confusticating working out ages can be. :P
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ November 26th, 2010, 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
That's right where I was thinking. Pre-puberty, but not too young.
Author:  Aragorn [ November 26th, 2010, 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
I would think anywhere from 6 to 10.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 26th, 2010, 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
I agree with the 9-11 consensus. I have a character, (a villain, incidentally) who witnesses the massacre of his entire family (royalty, lots of cousins) at about 9. He was old enough to remember the massacre and his immediate family, but he wouldn't recall anyone specifically. So that's about the age I think that would fall into. And if I met any of my friends from nine years old today, I don't think I'd recognize them. I might feel that they were vaguely familiar, but if I didn't know their names I'd probably be clueless. I had a friend call me a few months ago, who I hadn't spoken too in about ten years, and I couldn't even remember who she was when I heard her name! So, yeah... that's the right age.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 26th, 2010, 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Thanks, everyone! The feedback is extremely helpful. Now if I can get NaNo out of the way, I can work on it. :D
Author:  Celearas [ November 28th, 2010, 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
It really varies for everyone. My cousin hit 15 and everything about her changed, while another cousin is 19 and still looks about the same as he did at 10. I just saw a friend the other day that looks almost exactly the same as she did in Pre-K. It just depends. 11 is just fine. If you wanted it to be a bit interesting, you could have a one character recognize another, or even a vauge memory, but it's all you.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 28th, 2010, 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Thanks for the helpful suggestions, Celearas!
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ November 29th, 2010, 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Okay, not to be the naysayer here, but I think 11 is way too old. Yes, guys haven't entered puberty yet, but they've lost lots of baby fat, and their babyish features are no longer evident. I was thinking more along 8, maybe 9. Old enough to have vivid memories, but young enough to have lots of changes occur physically.

Also, by age eleven, your mannerisms have solidified considerably. Kids are still moldable at eight or nine, so there is still room for a lot of change to occur in that respect as well. I just really feel that eleven is going to be too old. If they were friends (which I know Peter and Nathan were for sure) then I can't see them nine years later not recognizing each other sooner than they do in your book.

So that is my two cents worth. :)
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ November 29th, 2010, 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Some of my friends look close to what they did, and some have changed. There's never been a time when I haven't seen them for years, so I couldn't say for sure if that age would work for what you're trying to do.
I do remember having one friend who was probably 10-12 (though I don't remember for sure) when I last saw him, and then I didn't see him for a few years. Even after that short amount of time I barely recognized him when I saw him later.

I think it is plausible, depending on the personalities/lives of the characters. My oldest best friend looks much like she did when we were about that age, because she's found no reason to change anything. The guy I mentioned above doesn't really look anything like he used to because he doesn't want anything to do with the way he was raised, and he wants to look older than he is.
Behavior may also change, which would make it harder to recognize someone later.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 29th, 2010, 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
I appreciate the opinions, both of you! I realize there is no "cut off age" and that many factors play a part, but my most important goal is to please the readers. If the readers don't believe me, it doesn't matter whether it's scientific or not.

Airianna, I agree with your reasoning, and I think I can reconcile it with the other opinions. Mark, Peter, and Nathan are all different ages - with Nathan being the youngest. If I go with my current plan, their ages during the prologue would be, respectively: 11, 10, 9.

Therefore, Nathan is the one that will (in theory) change the most - and he's the one that needs to go unrecognizable. Mark and Peter stay in contact, and Nathan has been observing the other two from a distance. So Nathan can recognize the others - but they can't recognize him. If Nathan was the youngest of the lot, that helps, because he's the one that changed the most.

However, I may have a problem. I've witnessed teenage boys growing up, and they get tall and their voices get deep. It can be a bit alarming, actually, for big sister! That's a significant enough change that someone might go unrecognizable. However, Nathan never gets that tall. Nathan barely scrapes 5' fully grown. So he doesn't gain that much height, but I expect his voice will still deepen. Is that enough of a change to make him unrecognizable at first?

Truth be told, I'm not really worried about Peter recognizing him. Peter didn't know him that well and only saw him every so often. Mark and most of the court, however, are relatives and knew Nathan for most of his young life. Mark is the one that reveals the truth, but I can't have the other court members picking up on it too early.

Any further thoughts based on that information? The help is really appreciated.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ November 30th, 2010, 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
I don't believe his height will be an issue at all. In my opinion, height is one of the lesser changes he will be making. Even if his voice doesn't deepen incredibly, he will still no longer have the boy tenor pitch of adolescence. Those are going to be the smaller changes that help hide his identity I think, but I feel other aspects would be the larger contributors to cloaking his identity.
Author:  Aragorn [ November 30th, 2010, 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Also, he could have facial hair. That can really change someone's appearance.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ November 30th, 2010, 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
But I already have concept art for him, and he's clean-shaven! :shock:

Thanks for all the help, everyone! I will mull over all the suggestions. I know I can make it work somehow, and your feedback has been helpful.
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ November 30th, 2010, 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Backstory Problem - how old?
Jonathan Garner wrote:
Also, he could have facial hair. That can really change someone's appearance.


Very much so.

Glad to help, Phili! :)
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