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Deepening Characters
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Author:  Liagiba [ November 3rd, 2009, 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Deepening Characters
Jay and I have been discussing how to deepen characters, and he suggested I post that as a question to the forum at large.

How do you deepen characters?
What does it mean to deepen characters?
Is there a difference between making a real character and a deep character?

Thanks!
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 3rd, 2009, 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I'm not sure what you mean, by "deep" creature. Do you mean Realistic, or sympathetic, or what?
Author:  Liagiba [ November 3rd, 2009, 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I mean "deep" characters. An example of that would be, as Jay said, Ti in my story "The First Arrow".
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ November 3rd, 2009, 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I know that, for me, when I let my characters talk (like the character introduction topic), it's easier to make them seem more realistic. The more real you make them seem, the easier it is to give them a personality.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 4th, 2009, 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Hm...I think I'm getting what you mean, kind of. I think to 'deepen' characters, is simply to make them more complex. Not all one emotion, or all one motive. It's to make them more like REAL PEOPLE!

Everyone's soul (to an extent anyway.;))is a mysterious mix mash of different competing desires, hates, motives, and dreams. Bring that through in a character, show the different emotions, work out a good backstory for them, make the reader forget that they're fictional.
Author:  Liagiba [ November 4th, 2009, 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Good points. Can you think of a practical way to do that?
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 4th, 2009, 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Show the struggles of a characters heart. Deal in the grey areas of their morals, and them trying to do the right thing. Show their weaknessess along with their strengths! Believe it or not, weaknessess are what make a character endearing.

(at least to most people.;)) I hate reading about perfect people, who always know what to do, always win, and are drop dead gorgeous to boot. I just can't empathize! Does that make sense?
Author:  Liagiba [ November 4th, 2009, 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Know what you mean. That's what I tried to do with Erynne's temper (which happens to be very hot). Later on in the story, she has a heart-to-heart with a childhood friend, Ecktali. She discusses how her hatred for Kylvain has consumed her and I think that deepens her some. Still, Jay mentioned that she seemed to be shallow. Any ideas?
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 5th, 2009, 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
She really has no weaknesses.:) Although you COULD make her hot temper one, so far it's been portrayed as admirable. (at least to my way of thinking.) She's gorgeous, she good at fighting, she keeps going even after suffering a debilitating wound. Maybe let us see that she has a softer side. It's not weakness to cry, or to admit that something hurts, or to apologize. Let us see that she IS human.;)
Author:  Liagiba [ November 5th, 2009, 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Well, I know what you mean. To me the temper gets worse, farther along, and she does break down at the big sappy scene that I haven't posted yet. That might make her a little more believable. :)
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 5th, 2009, 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Yes, I definitely think that would help.:) Another thing (this is probably overkill coming from me.;)) Maybe make her a little more feminine. It seems like she's constantly trying to prove herself and beat the boys. I get that, and it makes sense, but just because she can doesn't mean you need to emphasize it quite so much.:D

(although that may be my hyper-sensitivity to all things feministic.;))
Author:  Liagiba [ November 5th, 2009, 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Well, if you accuse her, I'm kind of her twin to un-femininity. But I am removing some of the "tough it out" parts between Ti and her to clear it out a little. I'm also trying to show a deeper side to her as well.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 6th, 2009, 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I don't mean make her wimpy, or glamorous, or even make her wear dresses, though. I just feel that she acts exactly like a boy, maybe make her a little less...harsh? (except she's even tougher than a boy is.:D) On the other hand, it is definitely your story, so ultimately just do what you want.:)
Author:  Liagiba [ November 6th, 2009, 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
None of my good characters are wimpy. :) Thanks, I'm trying to fix some of her over-toughness. She does dress feminingly though, I mean she wears female armor. If you don't like her, you definetly wouldn't like my namesake, Lia. :)
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 6th, 2009, 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
LOL! I don't dislike her. I just don't LOVE her yet.;)

And if I sound like I'm being overly critical, I'm sorry, but you DID kind of ask for some ideas.:)

I think she has a lot of potential as a character!
Author:  Liagiba [ November 6th, 2009, 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Lol, I know, I'm giving you a hard time. I'm working on softening and deepening her a little, but if anybody has more practical ideas, let me know.
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ November 6th, 2009, 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I rather like your characters, even if the girls seem too tough to some people (doesn't bother me a bit). Sorry, I'm not good at advice...
Author:  Liagiba [ November 6th, 2009, 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Lol, thanks. If you think of anything, let me know. :)
Author:  Ana Mimetes [ November 18th, 2009, 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I think a way to deepen characters is to make them not all perfect. Give them flaws. Make them so they are not all beautiful, or perfect in every way because no one in the real world is.
Author:  beckyminor [ November 19th, 2009, 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Hmmm. Deepening characters. This could get long. :D

If you want to have characters with depth, you've got to put a lot of work into them before you put them on the page. (Or, at the very least, while you're putting them on the page, but I recommend the former, since it makes the job of writing the characters' actions easier when you already "know" them.)

When you're putting a character together, consider his of her temperament. Is he a leader? A caretaker? A peacemaker? A dissenter? You should have a basic profile down that will inform you on how to keep that character consistent, so that as you're writing, your character will have mannerisms your readers come to expect...like they "know" him. The occasional twist is good, but no so much that your character seems unfathomable.

One tool a lot of people use is a personality test: the Myers Briggs Personality Type...which breaks people down in to 16 basic types. You can read about that breakdown: http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-pers ... -types.asp

Once you've got a basic personality established, from there, you should fill in as much backstory about the character as you can drum up. Granted, very little of this might actually emerge in your manuscript, but the fact that you've done the work will "bleed through" in your writing. Things to consider:
Physical Appearance (I list it first, although it is really fairly low on the list of importance, unless the character's appearance causes issues for him in the plot.)
Birth Order; We all know that firstborns behave differently than babies of the family, and so forth. How does this play out with your character?
Love language: How does your character express and receive love? If you're not familiar with the five types, they are: works of service, physical touch, time spent, words of affirmation, gifts. Gary Chapman wrote an incredible book (series of books, actually) about this, which are worth reading, especially if you're old enough to be thinking about romantic relationships/marriage.
Spiritual gift(s)
Other family information: Rich, poor, powerful, obscure, big, small, loving, fractured
Major Life events: Loss of a parent, child, or other loved one? Married, single? Prisoner of war? Other life altering failures or successes...
What's likable about your character? What's not? (Let's face it, we all have ugly little parts of our personalities.)
How do others perceive this character? Is that different than how she perceives herself?
Manner of speech: Formal, stilted, or carefree and slang-ish? Educated or not? Sarcastic and biting or gentle?
Interests and abilities

After you've thought this stuff through, you can move on to deciding what kind of "inner journey" you want your character to take in your story. How will your character be different at the end of the story than she was at the beginning? Will she change? (Most protagonists in great stories do. Supporting characters may not.)

The biggest plot-driven thing I have learned about developing characters is that something called "the knot." This is a foible that your character has that may make him stumble as he tries to conquer the outer circumstances of his life. For example, in my fantasy series, Danae's (protagonist) knot is that she thinks she needs to handle everything in her own strength. (Firstborn child combined with a lack of faith) If you can build a compelling "knot" at the heart of your character's personality, the conflicts in your story will write themselves. :)

Okay, I think this is way long enough for now.

Hope it's been helpful.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 19th, 2009, 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Ah! That reminds me of something! Often, just before I write a story, I come up with character profiles. Here's a sample of one.

Jade Willow
Gender: Female
Age: 17
Description: Black hair, Dark blue eyes, Pale skin. She dresses in black, grey and dark blue. She stands around five seven, almost unhealthily thin, walks like a dead shadow, has a tattoo of a black scorpion on her lower back, the insignia of the gang she belongs to, has a switchblade and a stolen handgun in her coat pocket that she isn’t afraid to use.
Personality: Deceptive, secretive, cold, and tough, but underneath there is a wounded spirit. She loves her rap and hard metal. She is fiercely independent, has a rather crude manner of speaking, has an effective style of street fighting, is good at extracting information from people. She either gets close to you and manipulates, or beats the truth out of you.
Background: Jade has lived on the streets since she was very little. Her mother had her out of wedlock, and was mean and abusive till she died of an overdose when Jade was eleven. Her boyfriend, Damien is the head of an infamous gang that calls themselves The Blades, and he’s the only person in the world who she is loyal to. She’s his right hand, helping him keep people quiet, and initiating new members.

They're a LOT of fun to make, and they help you get a feel for your character! It helps you to put yourself in their shoes, and identify.
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ November 19th, 2009, 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Okay, now I REALLY want to read a story about her, lol
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 21st, 2009, 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
lol. well, thank you!
Author:  Whythawye [ November 26th, 2009, 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Wow! You never cease to amaze me, Lady Minor! Those two things (Myers-Briggs Type and the Five Love Languages) are two of my main tools for deepening my characters. They are both invaluable tools for good writing. I was actually going to post about them on here, but you beat me to it. :)

Here is something that I like to point out. Take any character that you want to deepen, and list all of his personal characteristics. Everything, personality, preferences, looks, history, etc. Now take off all interests, abilities, hobbies, looks, etc. Forget about the color of his hair, how good he is with a sword, or what he does in his spare time (who cares that he likes tiddlywinks and looks at the stars?).

Now what you have left is actually what your character is. His real, deep, personality. If you don't have anything, or less than a paragraph, then you have what is known as a 'flat' or 'shallow' character. You should be able to have at least a page of intricacies of his inner being.

Too many people focus utterly on things like the shape of the sword, the color of the hair and eyes, and what he likes to eat. None of those really matter.

Another thing that I would like to point out is that just because your characters talk to you, does not mean that they are deep. It just means that you are able to talk to yourself (which is a sign of being a genius, but never mind). The more different you characters are from you, the deeper they probably are.

Now I will get off my soapbox and go write and code. :)
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ November 26th, 2009, 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Another thing that I would like to point out is that just because your characters talk to you, does not mean that they are deep. It just means that you are able to talk to yourself (which is a sign of being a genius, but never mind).


Some people might say it's a sign you are a bit off in the head :P
Although I agree. Being able to talk to yourself is essential to writing. :D


Thanks for that post, Jay. Very helpful.
Author:  Lady Eruwaedhiel [ December 7th, 2009, 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Wow! You never cease to amaze me, Lady Minor! Those two things (Myers-Briggs Type and the Five Love Languages) are two of my main tools for deepening my characters. They are both invaluable tools for good writing. I was actually going to post about them on here, but you beat me to it. :)

Interesting idea, Jay. (I assume it's OK to call you Jay?) I've actually used those on me, but never on my characters.
I came up as an INFJ (introverted intuitive feeling judging) though I don't quite believe it. I can't understand about 25% of the questions! My Mom says I'm pretty evenly balanced between Introvert and Extrovert, and that I can adapt easily. I prefer to be alone at some times, yet I'm comfortable around lots of people.
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ December 8th, 2009, 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I am working on a Vision Casting assignment (for me, as in Elsa). It consists of about 20 questions that you answer over a long period of time. I'm going to complete it and then post the questions here. It seems like a great tool to use in deepening characters as it deals with the "core of your being" and those deep areas.

This is one of the lists of questions that I use to learn about my characters. (Note: I use this for my modern story characters and I modify it depending on the character. For a fantasy character, you probably would have to skip some of the questions.)

Reactions:
How does he/she handle change?
How does he/she respond when unjustly accused of something?
How does he/she handle emergencies?
How does he/she react when meeting new people?
What would he/she do about someone who was bothering him/her?
What would he/she do if someone stole one of his/her prized possessions?
What would be his/her first reaction if he/she came home and saw blood on the floor?
What does he/she do under pressure?
Could he/she be motivated to violence? What would motivate him/her?


If...
If he/she had unlimited wealth, on what would he/she spend it?
If he/she was going to write a book, what would he/she write about?
If he/she could be someone else, who would he/she be?
If he/she had a free day, what would he/she do?
If a spell turned him/her into an animal that most resembles his/her heart, what would he/she turn into?
If he/she could turn into an animal, what would he/she want to turn into?

History:
What was his/her favorite birthday celebration? What happened? Why does he/she remember it?
What was his/her favorite holiday celebration? What happened/ Why does he/she remember it?
What was his/her worst birthday? What about it was bad?
What's the strangest thing he/she ever did? How does he/she feel about it?
What's the strangest thing that ever happened to him/her? How does he/she feel about it?
What is his/her greatest regret it life? Does he/she intend to do something about it? What?
What was on his/her wish list as a six year-old? A ten year-old?
When he/she was six years old, what did he/she want to be as an adult?
What is the most beautiful thing he/she has ever seen?
What is the ugliest thing he/she has ever seen?


Materials:
What one object would he/she grab if his/her house was on fire?
If he/she could keep one object from her childhood, what would it be?
If he/she could keep one photograph from her childhood, what would it be?
What does he/she always carry with him/her?
What does his/her bedroom look like?
What was his/her all-time favorite gift? Who gave it to him/her?
What kinds of awards does he/she have? How does he/she feel about them.
Does he/she have a special collection of keep-sake items or items he/she won't give away? What are they?

People in Life:
What person/people have most influenced him/her?
Who important in his/her life has died? How did he/she react to or handle it?
What person does he/he most wish he/she did have to put up with, but feels he/she has to?
Who is his/her confident?
What trait most annoys him/her when he/she encounters it in others?
Does he/she feel responsible for anyone else besides himself/herself?
What about him/her annoys others?

Purpose, Destiny and Future:
What sort of legacy does he/she want to leave behind?
How does he/she feel about growing old?
Does he/she know what his/her purpose in life is? What does he/she think it is?
What does he/she want to do but can't?
What major thing does he/she want to accomplish in life?
How would he/she describe his/her ideal spouse?

Personal:
What hobbies and side interests are most important to him/her?
What things in life are most important to him/her? What would he/she be willing to die for?
What does he/she daydream about?
What is his/her secret dream?
What makes him/her embarrassed?
What makes him/her proud?
What rule would he/she say is most important to live by?
What is his/her favorite retreat?
Does he/she feel he/she has responsibilities that he/she can't handle? What does he/she do about them?

According to Others...
How would his/her parents describe him/her as a child?
What do others say about him/her?
What is his/her worst flaw according to his/her parents? What does he/she think his/her worst flaw is?
What is his/her greatest strength according to his/her parents? What does he/she think his/her greatest strength is?
What is something his/her parents have said to him/her that he'll/she'll never forget?

~•†•~

I hope this helps.

EDIT: I know that a lot of these questions don't violate the "don't put prepositions at ends of sentences"; prepositions are not good words to end sentences with. But according to Churchhill, "That is a rule up with which I will not put." I agree.

I thought I'd post that for a good laugh. :D
Author:  Arias Mimetes [ December 8th, 2009, 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
That looks very helpful, Alaethea. Thanks :)
Author:  Whythawye [ December 9th, 2009, 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
Not too bad. I like it a lot. A lot of those questions are in my deep character fractalling system.
Author:  Bethany Faith [ July 1st, 2011, 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
This thread has been moved to Character Development. :)
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ July 1st, 2011, 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I think that it helps greatly to read unembellished accounts of real and significant people.

People like Abraham, and Alexander the Great, and George Washington.

If you are planning on being a fantasy writer you need to do your research.

Another indispensable part of your research is experiencing nature without the music video. Walk through a forest with your eyes open, and it will improve your Fantasy. Our God is the Grand-Master in Fantasy writing, and deepening characters is the part he loves the most.
Author:  Cadenza [ July 1st, 2011, 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I've been thinking recently how while we always give our characters flaws, we make them sort of attractive flaws. For example, anger. Anger is a problem, and of course we all know that - but there is something somewhat glamorous about it. Anger against those who hurt their family, or themselves, or their country - it seems more noble than anything else. On the other hand, anything like gluttony is absolutely dis-likable in any situation. Never glamorous, never noble, and we only find it cute if it is a small child eating strawberry ice cream for the first time.
Not sure if that was coherent or not! :P
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ July 1st, 2011, 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Deepening Characters
I agree. Always "strong willed" and never violent, always "modest" and never cowardly, always "unintelligent" and never foolish. Gluttony, laziness, whining, you never see them.

However think of the failings of Tolkien's characters; they were epic: Frodo on Weathertop, Aragorn at the breaking of the fellowship, and, not the least, Sam before they entered Shelobs lair.

In making our characters real we do not want to make them shallow, though many real people behave shallowly.
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