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Telepathy
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1131		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 7th, 2010, 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Telepathy
I was asked in the creatures thread of the roa'an would have some kind of mind speak, telepathy. And I have sort of toyed around with the idea a bit, but I'd like some more opinions from some of you before I make that kind of addition. I, as a christian, am not really sure what to think of telepathy and if i should incorporate that into my story or not. Although not technically magic, is telepathy more of a natural, yet suppressed ability of the mind, as some say? Or is it a form of occult practice. I'm not certain myself. Some help would be awesome, as I'm actually pretty torn on how I'm going to introduce magic, in general, to my story.
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ October 7th, 2010, 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
I had a thread about this a while back... I don't remember where it went, though. :)

My current stance is "it all depends on context" but I try not to do it because it's really insanely popular right now (I believe because of Eragon). On the other hand, I have a couple of story premises based on mindspeaking that could be pretty awesome.

I think you won't have a problem as long as you explain where it comes from.

Now I am wondering where my thread went. I seem to recall making a fuss about it and here it is some months later and I don't recall why... :D
Author:  Melody Kondrael [ October 7th, 2010, 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Ah hah, here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=579

I put it in theology originally because I feel that telepathy is partially a theological thing.

To clarify my posts in the other thread (I understand mindspeaking a little better now!):

Because your mind and spirit are connected via emotions/etc (I'm not positive how this works, but there is some kind of connection) then it can be very theologically touchy to work it out so that it's safe for the characters.

I mean, in some forms of telepathy, the mentor character tells the young MC to 'open your mind' and other such stuff that really sounds like (1) new age ness or (2) plain stupidity. We watch what goes into our minds for a reason! ;D

However, I think there is a time and place for it, and as a form of communication, it does work.

Therefore: my position is that it is not in and of itself wrong, but if you are doing it the wrong way, it is. ;D
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ October 7th, 2010, 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
I think Mel made some good points. In addition I thought I would share a few simple thoughts. I generally view how magic and telepathy my faith this way. In our world, we cannot mind speak, shoot balls of fire from our fists, or shape shift. The Lord did not create us to have these “powers” therefore the only way we could do these things is through demonic influence. However, in another world the laws of nature and creation can be very different. If we design our world so that the creator has instilled these “magical” aspects into a person’s genetic code, then it’s no longer magic. It has now become the norm for my world. There is no demonic activity in these actions because my characters have been gifted with these abilities from birth. This being said, I try to avoid instilling in my characters forms of magic that are generally thought of as witchcraft. Thus none of my characters ride on broomsticks, create potions in a black cauldrons, or chant words in a primal language to make someone turn into a toad (these are silly examples, but you get my picture).

These are my personal views and I understand they are not shared by everyone. I think you basically have to decide what you are comfortable with. The Lord gifts us all differently and has burdened us with different views of fiction. My advice is don’t do anything that you have hesitation over. Make sure you feel comfortable with your decision and are comfortable enough that you could discuss your view with someone else without worrying about whether you are wrong. However, you have to find the balance of believing in what you believe concerning fiction, and being willing to keep an open mind towards others. This is something I have to constantly remind myself of.

I hope that was helpful.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ October 7th, 2010, 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
I personally find telepathy to be too common nowadays. It seems to pop up in most newer fantasy books.

that said, I don't see why it would be a problem in a fantasy world morally. As Airianna said, what's natural in this world isn't necessarily natural in another, and the same goes for unnatural.

One thing you might want to ask yourself though, is why you are using telepathy. I've found that a lot of books use it too much as a short cut. A way to solve problems, by talking to people at ridiculously long distances.

The same with teleportation. If it gets to the point where there's no space/time problem and you're just appearing and disappearing every where, it gets kind of annoying.:)

just a few thoughts.:D
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ October 7th, 2010, 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Those are very true point Willow! I only allow one creature to mind speak in my story. The Diegose can only connect into the mind of its personal Caldarian and other Diegose. I have lots of limitations for the reasons Willow stated. Telepathy, like magic, can be used as a 'get out of jail' card. I believe it should add interest, not give you a quick fix.
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 8th, 2010, 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Ok... those were all great points and really helped clear it up for me. As for the roa'an in my story, they will only be able to communicate with their rider in this way.... under most circumstances. This will definitely not be used in a "get out of jail free card" manner though. Well..... not entirely. I haven't written that yet though, so it's still just an idea. I'm toying with an idea that someone will be able to communicate or be communicated to, by many roa'an. This isn't a part of the story set in stone yet however. Hmmmmm I wonder if roa'an can speak to Diegose...... nah.
Author:  Timotheus [ October 23rd, 2010, 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Is the telepathy something that is gifted to believers upon conversion or at birth and then you have good and evil people using telepathy with their roa'an?

I've just recently created a creature in my sci-fi book with special powers and am wondering if God in my universe created animals that "connect" with His children. This idea seems similar to yours Anthony (6string) and I'm wondering what you're thinking about the way this power is gifted (at birth or upon conversion). My thread on this is at TGS - Mara on HWSF.
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 23rd, 2010, 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Well I'm thinking along the lines of a natural ability of the roa'an at birth, so of course the power would come from their creator. The elves themselves don't necessarily have the ability to telepath themselves, however it seems like both have the ability because the roa'an can send their thoughts to the elf, or receive thoughts from the elf. The elf would not have the ability to do this with another humanoid, or another animal other than the roa'an.

I like your idea of the mara, Tim. Very cool. It's funny though, I've toyed around with the idea of large polar bears for use as mounts by some human, elves and dwarves in the north. But I think I'll scratch that idea now though lol. I guess i could still use a grizzly-ish type bear I dunno. I thought about a creature to be used as mounts by some elves in the Griffinwood or Mistwood as well. I'm thinking of a large maned catlike animal, a cross between a tiger and a lion (but no... not a liger really lol), ranging from grey to black in color with dark stripes in the fur. I'm thinking, as with the Walven, I may have them horned as well. I Kinda like that touch. These may have a similar ability to the roa'an in terms of communication.
Author:  Timotheus [ October 23rd, 2010, 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
That could work, as a gift from birth, and then they are free to choose to use it for good or evil. Keep up the good work!

Thanks. I wonder how practical riding a polarbear panther would be though? I'd think with the pointy shoulders it would be pretty bumpy. :)
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 23rd, 2010, 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
well the roa'an are inherently good in nature, so the animals will only communicate between themselves and their rider if they have one. I may allow some exceptions to the rule... I don't know.

hmmm I dunno. I guess with a bear like animal you would have to sit a little further up toward the shoulders, but with a large catlike animal, you would need to sit a bit behind the shoulders. I'm certain a saddle could be specially made in either case. I may leave out the polar bear type creatures in my story I'm not sure. I haven't made it there yet. I am going to need some kind of mount for dwarves, and bears really seem to fit them I think. I think I'll go for a large brown bear (like a big grizzly bear thing).
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ October 25th, 2010, 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
How would they sit on a grizzly bear? Really flexible hips?
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 25th, 2010, 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Griffin wrote:
How would they sit on a grizzly bear? Really flexible hips?
well just for the sake of wondering that myself, I did an image search for "riding a bear". It can be done :)
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 27th, 2010, 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Ok, the roa'an are able to send their thoughts and receive the thoughts of their E'eld riders. The E'eld however are not able to send their thoughts. It's all the ability of the roa'an themselves, thought it would appear their riders send as well as recieve. Actually they only receive what the roa'an sends them, and when they think, the roa'an can pick that up.... :shock: ok... I think I confused even myself there :? Hopefully you get the idea.

The following is a conversation by Tia'ialla (Tia for short ;) ) and her roa'an, Silverprince. They have just left the burnt out remains of the temple where his fellow brothers were slaughtered. He now carries the sword of one their attackers and has vowed that he will protect himself and others rather than die in vain, needlessly as his brothers did. He has taken to heart the words of Jandrous, the One True King in their holy book "The Teachings"... "Prepare for war! For although you are priests of love and servitude, you are also warriors of the One God!"

Note: all words in quotations are written in italics to suggest thought rather than spoken word in the story itself..... I'm just too lazy to do it here :D

The large roa'an she rode, sent her his thoughts.

"There is anger."

"Yes, Silverprince. There is anger." She sighed.

"It does not feel vengeful, however," The roa'an thought. "It is more a... righteous anger?"

"Yes, I believe so. He is angry and very sad that his brothers died needlessly, and will not allow the same for himself. Nor for others, I believe."

"He will protect himself and his herd. I would do the same."

"Yes, Silverprince," Tia replied, and patted her mount on its broad neck. "I believe you have the right of it."

"More sadness comes... "

"Yes, my Roa'an friend. I'm afraid so. More sadness for all of us, I'm afraid." She looked at Marek, who rode silently, tears streaming down his face once more.

"His heart is stronger than it now seems," the roa'an thought to her.

"I hope you are right, for all of us."

Thoughts?
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ October 27th, 2010, 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Ooh! Sounds good!
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ October 27th, 2010, 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
I think that works. I also like that the elves can't put thoughts into their mount's head. Only the mount has the capability.
Author:  6stringedsignseeker [ October 27th, 2010, 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Thanks :D I like the way it works out too. And it's kinda fun to write too :) I suppose at some point someone curious will have to ask how the E'eld communicate with their roa'an and hopefully I can do a decent enough job of explaining it lol. It's soooo easy, but somehow confusing lol.
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ October 28th, 2010, 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Going back to the "opening your mind" thing *coughbrisingrcough*, I agree with what you said on both points, Mel. IIRC, in DKP's Dragon Keeper Chronicles, she did this thing where you asked Wulder (God) to protect your mind. Just a thought.
Author:  Whythawye [ January 15th, 2011, 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
I think that telepathy is actually an inherently fantasy element (although I also believe it is real and perfectly natural). It is used a lot, you say.

And so it is, all the way back from LotR (in which it was actually used quite a bit, even extensively I may say, and not only among the servants of Sauron), at least.
Author:  Neil of Erk [ January 16th, 2011, 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
And so it is, all the way back from LotR (in which it was actually used quite a bit, even extensively I may say, and not only among the servants of Sauron), at least.


I guess I would caution that it's done in a different way than modern telepathy is written, though. It's mostly implied, and the actually execution of it is often vary subtle, like most of the cobha of Middle Earth. Sometimes the movie makes things less subtle, and so people (not Jay) become confused.

Generally I would say that there isn't a direct, word-for-word connection in LoTR telepathy. There are some notable exceptions, I think.

One thing I would avoid is making a bunch of absolute rules about it. What often annoys me about telepathy is that writers make it sound like a science but it really seems to easy and simple. Make it more subtle, mysterious, and weird.
Author:  Whythawye [ January 17th, 2011, 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
It was pretty obvious that the Palantiri were telepathic phones, more or less, just described in a fantasy way rather than a sci-fi way. :)
Author:  Neil of Erk [ January 17th, 2011, 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
It was pretty obvious that the Palantiri were telepathic phones, more or less, just described in a fantasy way rather than a sci-fi way. :)


Except that the Palantiri go beyond simple telepathy. They allow people to subtly influence the wills of other. (That is my interpretation, BTW, one could make different claims.) We also don't know if the Palantiri transfer a word for word thought, or a thought essence. (Again, I guess that's my interpretation.)
Author:  Evening L. Aspen [ January 18th, 2011, 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
I think that telepathy is actually an inherently fantasy element (although I also believe it is real and perfectly natural)

Perfectly natural and real? Cool...I think. :D Could you recommend any websites talking about real-world telepathy? (I don't really want to Google it for fear of all the Wiccan and other junk out there...)
Author:  Whythawye [ January 18th, 2011, 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Telepathy
Research EFT. Emotional Freedom Technique. It is a bit on the fringe, but it is scientific and valid, and they talk about it in there some.
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