I generally don't show a lot of emotion, if at all. Even at the funerals of my Great-Grandmother and Great-Grandfather, I didn't cry.

About the shared experience bit, it's realistic if they help each other through it.

I try not to cry a lot in funerals. Sometimes I cry a little anyways.

I always feel weird that I post more in the guys thread than the girls thread.

However, I think I can give you some insight, E.

Guys do cry. They aren't emotionless, mindless machines. However, their emotions are pulled at very differently than girls. You have to penetrate them differently in order for them to show an emotional response. Guys are created to protect, to endure physical hardships. Medically their brains have a mechanism that helps them block emotions from overwhelming them. Thus they have a higher emotional tolerance. That’s not a sexist remark, it’s just science.

I've found what makes guys cry is basically one simple fact. They feel the weakest when you attack or pull at their God given roles, or when they feel helpless and are unable to do something about a situation. This is what breaks a guy. For example, a guy is more likely to cry because someone close to them has been impacted, as opposed to themselves. They are designed to protect, to shelter those they love from experiencing pain. Guys would rather take the pain, than let those they care about deal with it. It gives them control; makes them feel like they can take care of you.

I have rarely seen my Daddy tear up, or the other men in my life, actually. This isn't because they are devoid of emotion. It is because their job is to shield those they love and care about. My Daddy teared up when his mother cried upon his shoulder, due to a situation that occurred with my teenage cousin. He's teared up when my Mother cries over yet another miscarriage, and he cried when my brother died. I'm not going to say every guy is like this, but lots of them are. A guy has to feel broken in order to cry. Physical pain doesn't penetrate men well. Instead of breaking them, it typically puts an iron rod in their backs and a clench to their jaws.

Now, let me speak specifically to E for a moment. Remember when Klista is torturing Faulkner? (I think it was Faulkner...) He remembers his wife. Then Klista takes that memory and skews it. Faulkner is out of control, he feels broken. This is an example of when a man would realistically be broken and possibly cry. The emotion you portrayed in that scene was realistic. Or when Iri’s Dragon dies. He’s no longer in control, he can do nothing, and someone he loves has been impacted. See what I’m getting at?

This has been my own experience in my life with men.

*chuckles* I am very glad I could help, and I would love to help by reading your draft! *fiendish delight*

That makes sense. Thanks, Neil! I'm mostly thinking about the MCs from my NaNo novel. They get sent on an adventure together, and the one is NOT happy with the other for getting him entangled in this. But somewhere along the middle, he begins to understand why this is important for the other guy and grasp the severity of his friend's illness, and he starts to wrap around and be helpful...

I intend to post more about this later (some absolutely awesome input here, people!), but I did want to mention this:

I have. Lots. Tons. Everywhere. I have had to deal with them, counsel them, rebuke them, punish them, order them, try to make friends with them, the whole works. Lack of eye contact is a huge problem, and is a sign of a lack of respect and honor in our society. I myself have made massive impressions on people and have been accepted into groups of men (who are mainly constituted of people over twice my age) as a good friend, confidant, and even counselor. And a huge part of that was because I looked them straight in the eye, unlike my peers in age.

However, that does not mean that guys aren't less likely to value face to face interaction. They value eye to eye contact because that is a sign of confidence and respect, not because it is a sign of intimacy (at least not as much). Guys work side by side to gain intimacy (without speaking, oftentimes), not face to face. At least not as much as girls.

My two cents before I post my hundred dollars...

Agreed. I've totally seen that. What I haven't seen is that guys who make eye contact are issuing a challenge. I think eye contact is crucial and a sign of respect and confidence, not a challenge.

Challenge? That is dog-language, not human language.

To drop the eyes before someone is a sign of submission, though, and so eye contact with slaves was anathema in the days of slavery.

There is a huge difference, though, between a solid, open, respectful look in the eyes, and an insolent, daring stare.

Agreed. That's why I replied to whoever said that eye contact was a challenge. As a side note, eye contact is very important for girls too, not just guys. People are very impressed with any young person who can look them in the eyes and speak intelligently.

Agreed.

Hear hear, well said. I'll post a quote from a book:

"Eyes, honest. I've always tried to keep my eyes honest, so I can always look anyone in the eye without fear."

- The Last Thing I Remember (which may be a little different, but to the same effect )

Try smiling pleasantly when you make eye contact with people.

I mean every time. As a habit. No matter who they are.

It has... a positive influence. You'll gain a reputation and you just might give a young pastor the guts to finish his convicting sermon because, while the rest of the congregation is giving him a death stare, you're smiling every time he glances in your direction.

True story.

Was that off-topic?

No, I agree. I've found that my face automatically smiles at someone who is looking at me now. It often has a positive influence.

Ok, granted I get some pretty stony looks back sometimes where I mutter something about "don't smile... face will crack" under my breath, but I still do it.

Okay I finally read the whole thread. Great stuff here!

Apologies by guys:

Girls tend to not consider something 'settled' until they sit down with all parties involved, talk the whole thing out, and say "I'm sorry."

Guys avoid that at all costs. They just 'drop it' or 'forget about it.' I think this is intrinsically connected with the way we view fights.

Girls look at fights as breaking connections, and so they need to re-connect to fix it.

Guys look at fights as duels. The way to fix the fight is to stop fighting. We stew over things until we decide to stop stewing over it. Then it is over and forgotten. So our apologies amount more to a "the wrongs are effaced and I recall no conflict between us" rather than an actual acknowledging of a wrong done and saying we were in the wrong, even if that is in our hearts. We just say and view it differently.

Another thing to consider about this whole guys vs. girls thing is that it isn't a matter of being 'smarter' in some areas or 'flawed' in other areas. Not at all. It is a matter of two different sets of languages. Two cultures. Two worldviews. Neither is wrong, but each are better suited to different applications.

I highly recommend getting, reading, and studying 'For Women Only' and 'Love and Respect.' Two extremely powerful and right-on books about this subject. A must-have for every writer's library. (Even though they were written to help married people deal with each other.)

I would say yes, E. Twins hold a very special, personal bond. Science says so, and I've seen it in my own family. So I would say the fact that they are twins only makes it that much harder for them.

An exception to this would be that I've seen twins where one was strong and the other was weak. In that instance, the weak one would break long before the strong one.

Thanks for that, Sir Emeth! So it's realistic to have my guy characters "make up" and start being friends without ever directly confronting about the subject? The change in attitude is sufficient, yes?

Yes.

Fantastical! So far it seems that the first draft of FADED is doing better than most of my previous stories in terms of realistic guys... not sure why that is, but it's a good thing. Thanks, Jay!

Love and Respect was where I was pulling most of my stuff from.

So, I have the same problem with my main male character, I honestly have absolutely no idea how he would respond in a lot of the situations I put him. To compensate for this little disability, I ask myself questions. I tend to go through the list of all the men I've ever known closely for awhile. I usually start by asking, "How would my dad respond in this situation?". Since I've grown up with him and seen him in a lot of situations it's easier for me to figure out what he would do. Using this method I have some basic points I stick too. Pardon me if some have already been said, I didn't have enough time to read all the replies to this topic.

The most important thing I've found for my dad anyway, is protection. He's very protective over anything he cares about. This isn't to say that men are over protective over their things or their loved ones, they're more protective in the meaning of the word that they assess everything and create a unconscious route of protection. My dad tends to take in his surroundings very well when we are in a possibly dangerous situation.

Another good point, is that most men (that I know, this really is just an estimate) when placed in a "fight or flight" situation, will (depending on the danger and if anyone is in "life or death" state) opt for the fight. This could be because they don't want to show weakness or because they are protecting something...I'm just guessing here.

Also, guys don't cry a lot. It's typical for girls to cry to show their emotions, but guys tend to hide when their distressed, so they can be there for the girls usually. I can say this first hand because in all of my life I've seen my dad cry once from emotions and never from physical pain and I've never seen any of my male friends or relatives cry.

And the last point is, guys are definitely more brave than girls. I like to stray away from making my male characters back down from a challenger or get kidnapped, etc. Because men tend to take on more dangerous situations than girls But once again this is just an estimate there is probably a girl out there who is braver than a guy.

Always, this observation stems mainly from personal experience. I just thought another girl's view on written male characters might be helpful to someone. Feel free to correct me. Thanks for reading.

Bethany Faith

Now that I have a MC who is a guy I found myself digging for this thread. There's lots of great info here, guys! Thanks!

This was interesting. I actually have a way, way easier time writing guys than girls. I know that sounds weird, but it's true. Most of my protagonists are guys, and the one series that has a girl protagonist is heavily populated by men.

And when Phil read one of my books with a guy protagonist, she commented several times, "That seems like such a guy thing to do!" So I guess I'm doing okay.

Like when the boy finds out he has leukemia he gets angry. A girl wouldn't do that, but it seems to work for this guy character.

It probably helps that my younger brother is my best friend, and I tend to have pretty close relationships with men in my family (father, grandfather, great-uncle, etc.). *shrug* I'm not sure.

Yeah, most of my protagonists are guys, too. Interesting.... *goes off pondering *

As a few post above this one have mentioned, I do prefer writing guys then girls.

I have always gotten along better with guys than girls, I have always been a guyfriend type of girl which is odd because I would in no way consider myself a tom-boy *stares down at own dress with admiration*...A few years ago I decided that it would not be good for my future marriage if I was too chummy with a lot of young men, so I distanced myself from them and God sent me my wonderful tom-boy of a best friend so now I have female companionship that I understand and I love it.

Anyways, sorry for rambling about a completely non-relevant issue.......I do write girl main characters, but they seem to come off as full of themselves and rude! So I like to mainly stay with the men I create in my stories they are so much simpler!!!! No roller coaster of emotions they're just plain old angry, aggressive, and non-outward feeling showing men.
Ana

Okay, I'd like to know if this is realistic. Y'all probably know that Aaron and Iri were great friends since childhood, separated for a while by "bad blood" and a war, and now they're back together again. Now one has to give the other the news that ...um, his injuries are much more serious than previously thought and will have devastating and permanent consequences. Does this reaction seem realistic to you?

 Aaron drew back and sat silent, letting the healing light die.
  "Well?" Iri prompted finally.
  "It ... I can't ..." He stopped, squeezed Iri's arm. "I'm ... Iri, I'm so sorry."
  Iri sat very still, not blinking, not breathing. A breeze from the courtyard lifted his hair away from his ashen face and Aaron saw him catch his lower lip between his teeth, biting it until the skin whitened.
  Aaron, not trusting his voice, reached to comfort him but Iri held up his hand. Aaron stopped, noticing for no reason that it was Iri's left hand. The emerald on his ring shone between them.
  "Thank you for your time," Iri said, his voice steady and cold. Aaron looked at Arrane in confusion. She wouldn't meet his gaze.
  "D-do you want me to heal anything else?" Aaron asked, disconcerted.
  "That won't be necessary."
  Aaron knew somewhere behind this princely facade, Iri was screaming.
  "All right." Aaron swallowed, finding it difficult to keep his composure. "Listen, the coronation is planned for a couple of months from now. Clark, Wyn, and I want to see you there. Get better."
  "I will," Iri said, still not looking at him.
  "All right." Aaron fumbled for something else to say. "I-I'll come tomorrow."
  When Iri didn't answer, Aaron left the room and shut the door. He stared unseeing at the empty hall, then leaned against the wood and slid to the floor, hiding his face in his hands. His shoulders began to shake with soundless sobs.

I want to know about Aaron's reaction as much as Iri's. Being a girl, I don't know exactly how men would react to a situation like this. Any input?

Quick question, first. Is this the debilitating and tragic wound that happens at the end to my darling Iri? Because that is a very serious, life altering type of thing, as opposed to a wound which just won't heal. So I want to make sure I am thinking correctly about what I'm reading.

Yes.
End of the World,
Nothing Will Ever be the Same Again,
Everything has Gone Wrong and
We're All Gonna Dieeeeeeee kind of injury.
Yeah, that one.

In that case, I actually think this scene works, with one exception. This seems a bit a odd to me. Aaron's response, not Iri's.

I thought the same thing when I read it. But other than that, everything worked really well.

Probably feel really awkward, shift his weight from side to side, maybe try to figure out what to do with his hands...

I like the casual observation of the ring on Iri's finger though, so don't cut that! Figure out some way to make it work!

I know this is rather late, but the way I write guys is, I write them how I think they should be, then hand the portion of my story over to my test reader, who is a 24-year-old guy named Jesse. He's very honest about whether I need to change things or not, although sometimes it's tricky because he doesn't relate to my main male character at all. While Jesse would go break something if someone made him mad, my main male character would go sit somewhere and stew over it forever. Anyway, I agree with-I'm sorry, I can't remember who-that said you need some guy friends. And your dad works, too! Though I understand shyness about discussing your stories with your parents. I wouldn't let mine read my stories until I was working on the 3rd installment in the series. But anyway, make some guy friends! Guy friends who are willing to be test readers=even better! And I disagree (no offense) with the person who said that reading books with well-developed guys in them won't help. I think it does. I do have four brothers, yes (but they're all younger-the oldest is 15-so they don't really help with my older characters), and about 5 good guy friends, but I get most of my inspiration and guidance from other writers. Read books, watch movies, etc. But I'm going to say this again-make some guy friends! That's probably your best bet, if you can find the right ones!

And there are plenty of young men on here who'd be happy to test-read.

I'll second that.

I'm not a man, but I write pretty darn convincing men if I do say so myself. I can test-read if you would like

And I'll third that, I will gladly test-read.

I write guys who are convincing to guys! I'd love to help you out

I'm going to be miserable for a while now.

On another note...

Has anyone read the "For Only" series, authored/coauthored by Shaunti Feldhahn? I just picked up a copy of her "For Young Women Only" the other day... They aren't from a writer's perspective (although that's how the books got started!), but they have great insights. I wouldn't give them to young readers, though...

I've never had any guys complain about my guy characters, and I have a lot of guy test readers, so I guess I'm good at it. I find it easier than writing girls, often.

I'm not very dramatic or high maintenance at all, so I find it a little tough to write girls who are. I guess I'm a lot like a guy, I'm like half tomboy. I love pretty dresses but hate pink. I don't mind getting injured, and I don't complain about it, in fact I act like nothing happened (people call me The Black Knight, as in the Monty Python movie! haha) and I love to be outdoors, hike, climb trees, etc. So I can write overall good guy characters because in some ways, I'm a lot like a guy (don't take that the wrong way!). But occasionally on matters of emotion, I have to contact one of my guy friends and ask how they would react.

Actually... I'm not sure any of those things are really guy traits, if you know what I mean.... I know many girls, myself included, who are like that...

Well, I didn't mean to say that only guys like that kind of stuff! I just didn't quite know how to better explain myself.
It's like this. A girl gets upset, she will normally either cry or sulk, sometimes blow up and get mad (but still cry or sulk later).
When a guy gets mad (let's say for the same reason the girl did), he will most likely just blow up, break things, yell at the person he's mad at, OR just hide it all.
I had only 4 hours of sleep last night, so I'm not sure if what I'm talking about makes any sense. I'm not even sure what I'm talking about... So bear with me!
And... Lost my train of thought. I'll come back and finish later, if I can ever gather my thoughts.

*smiles * No problem. I suppose I just don't fall into that category of girl.