Not sure where to put this...I was thinking General Discussion, but my mind got into a debate with itself and somehow I ended up deciding on Village Lore. So have fun pondering if this is the right place...

I'm not entirely sure where I read this, but one of the main things about being a beginning writer is the way somebody "gives you advice" can crush your spirit or make you a better writer and it's up to the person giving you advice to be kind about their advice and up to you to take it seriously, but also not to be too touchy (because everybody makes mistakes in their writings...yes, even C.S.Lewis, people.).

Giving The Advice:
Writers who are just starting out in their writing are easily put down. If you're a famous published author (like Ted Dekker, C.S.Lewis, and whoever Bryan Davis is) you'll end up with a bad book review at one point or another (probably one that could care less about hurting your little author feelings) and that is part of being published...and famous. You get the good and you get the bad (then there's the sort of good and sort of bad, but that's beside the point.) and you eventually learn to put up with it. Like when you're learning to play guitar and your fingers hurt at first, but soon they grow tougher and they don't hurt anymore?

Young writers...are beginning guitarists (myself included). They're just starting out, trying to make it to becoming a great author, but they need advice...advice and encouragement. Honestly, sometimes it's hard to combine the two. Usually you'll say, "That was great! But. . ." *horror movie scream* The dreaded..."but"! It's the worst word in the world...whoever invented it is a cruel, cruel person. *cough* I mean, yah, that's how we critique a young writer, right?...yaaaaaaaaaah.

No. Ehh. Wrong. Not right. Start over. Think again. Rewrite. Try again. Redo it. Typo there. Got a smudge on my computer screen...Nope! That was your writing. Hehe, okay, I think you get it.

Well, obviously we don't say those things (mainly because they're cruel, mean, and false.), but sometimes it's hard not to sound like that. Sometimes we start with a "That's great!" and end with a "So...those are the main things I think need improvement..." and somewhere along the lines the little, budding author with an ocean sized fountain of genius new ideas may decide that writing isn't worth their time if they are going to get so many things wrong. Poor little, budding writer...here. You get a pie. *hands you pie*

Not to say the critiquer is to blame either. I mean, you guys are great! We can't get better at our writing if somebody doesn't get the backbone to tell us what we did wrong! The problem might be (and I speak from experience here) not the information you present, but how you present it. There were times when somebody would give me advice and I would take it to heart, think about it, dwell on it, decide they were right, and honestly, truly, from the bottom of my heart be thankful for their wonderful gift of "Hey, you did this wrong by the way, Chica."

Other times, though, the person would present the information in a way that immediately turns me into shut down mode (Shut down mode: I'm nodding my head and say "Uh-huh" until you stop talking in which case I will turn on my eardrums again and return to hearing the world around me.) This may include when the advice is presented in a very, "This my advice I'm giving you and you are going to take it and you are going to like it!!!" (*cough* Hurt my vocal chords there...) or a, "Yah, yah, it was great, so the things you got wrong were," or (Ohh...this is my personal favorite.) "Oh, it was awesome! I mean...never as good as anything I've ever read, but you know...for a thirteen year old. You write like...mm...eight year old."

Obviously, the person isn't really saying these things...but the way in which they present their advice (tone of voice, sentence structure, facial expressions, body language, etc.) shows it. Sometimes they don't mean to, sometimes they do, other times it's just the only way they know how to give advice. Either way, it can be a very quick and easy way to dry up the ocean of new writer ideas.

But don't worry, I'm not going to tell you this without giving you an alternate way of saying things. Some good rules to go by are; tell them what's wrong, but don't forget to tell them what's right before and after. Don't be angry when the writer decides not to take your advice (or for the really bold, actually decides to tell you why they aren't taking your advice) that's half the fun of being a writer, originality, originality, originality. Always come as a friend, it's easy to be intimidated when a person comes with a very huffed up, "I've been writing for longer than you" attitude. Sometimes that in itself can make the young writer bow her head in the presence of such an amazing foe.

And always...under any circumstances...forever and no matter what...for the love of my allegorical God-like being....TELL US WHAT WE DID WRONG!!! We love hugs and compliments, but we also love improvement and cherish it when given correctly. Never hold back your opinion, it is always important and never forgotten.

So...question for you. How do you critique and what advice would you give on the subject?

How To Take Advice:
You thought I was done? Ha! I say, ha! You got me ranting...I shall never stop!...or at least...until my mom turns off the Internet. Then I might have to stop.

So, young, budding writer, you are. You pick up a pen and pencil and begin to scribble down your first truly developed storyline. You write faster than you've ever seen anyone write. Proof-read, edit, revise, and spell check. Then it's finished...your first story and it's perfect. In your eyes. (Which is great, an artist must take joy in their work if nothing else.) Excitedly you rush to your closest family member/friend/mentor/pastor/Internet forum/twitter/Facebook/buzz/social networking site/pet dog and show them your completed masterpiece. Your joyful scribbles. Your painting with words. Your genius at its best. Your-what's that you say?! They didn't like the ending?!!!! That's crazy!! The ending was the best part!!! And...the worst part?!!!! Your dog just says "woof"?!!! The nerve!!!

Yes, indeed, it has happened (as it was bound to the minute you took your precious work out of its safely hidden place in the dark corner of your documents folder labeled "Computer" so your non-techy parents won't accidentally click on it) you have received your first critique. But don't panic, every author is critiqued, reviewed, and told to try again. It's the circle...of writing. (Circle goes something like, write, revise, critique, redo...etc. Until you're published then it's "Write, revise, critique, redo...Published! *girly squeal*")

So, take a deep breath, open your eyes, stop hyperventilating, trust me hyperventilating never solved anything...except wasting some very important oxygen. Then look your critiquer in the eye (whether it be animal, computer screen, parent, friend, or foe.) say "Thank you," then curtsy or bow depending on your gender and take their words to heart.

I know, people can be cruel, and some critiques aren't given in the best spirit, but we can learn from even the most downright heart breaking critiques (trust me even though you don't know me). So just go somewhere quiet (preferably a bedroom or strangely large wardrobe that may or may not lead into a magical world) and think about said given critique.

Nasty comments? Forget 'em. Wonderful complements? Push then aside for now (you can bask in their awesomeness later ). Awkward tone of voice that makes you wonder if they really mean what they say? Make 'em sound like a chipmunk and erase it from your memory. See, take away everything until we have advice entirely and purely given to you in a nice manner to help you write.

Now take the advice and think about it. Sometimes it's necessary like "Always put a comma after a name" so you have to take that advice (you can also forget those for now seeing as you can go back and fix those things later, no pondering needed).

Other times it's opinionated advice like, "I think your main character was out of character in this scene," or "Sometimes I wondered were this scene was going...it seemed to drag just the tiniest bit." This is what we want. The heart and solid gold of all critiques. Opinions. It's what we writers need (even if they are given in bad attitude) because they give us just the smallest glimpse into the mind of our reader. Take this advice to heart...then...decide whether or not you want to use it. Don't worry if the person may or may not be upset you didn't take their advice. Just do what you think is best. In the end, all the critiques in the world could not (and really should not) change the stubborn insistence of the way a writer writes.

So...a question for you. Have you ever gotten any bad advice? Any helpful tips on how to handle it? What about good advice? What made it "good" for you?

Okay...bedtime so I must stop rambling for now...and I must commend you for reading this entire thing. Thank you.

Bethany Faith

DISCLAIMER: All of this rant has spurred from my own personal opinions and are solely generalizations...results may vary.

DISCLAIMER (to my disclaimer): I proof-read this in such a hurry before bedtime. So please forgive any typos...and fellow editors...you know what to do with the typos.

*claps, applauds, and feels motherlyish pride swelling *

Bethy, that was lovely! And it was a monster post I totally agree on lots of points Unfortunately I do not have the time right now to expound. So I will come back

Good advice, Beth.

To be honest, I generally don't critique much. I usually don't feel like I have much to say other than grammatical comments, and if there are just a few errors I figure it's not worth pointing them out and if there are a lot, I don't want to tear someone down by pointing out all those mistakes.

As for receiving critique, I do find it hard sometimes to take it peacefully and not as a personal insult. I can't remember any times where I had bad advice, although there may have been a time or two. As for good advice...well, the meeting with the critique group here in March was really good. I could see how the things they pointed out would improve the story and it all made sense.

(@Airi) That Motherlyish pride comment made me break out laughing. I'm very glad you liked.

(@Leandra) I don't usually give critiques either...I can honestly say it isn't my strong point because I either wonder if my advice will really help the person or hurt them, but when I do I like them to be nice.

Hehe...yah, I was terrible with getting advice for awhile when I started writing. I was so scared of it that my parents didn't even know I wrote a fantasy book until I joined HW... Bad advice made me really scared of good advice.

For that very reason, I am so passionate about presenting the right "tone" in your critiques. Because bad experiences do affect writers and people. More than some people realize. I even (shocking, I know) struggle with certain people's critiques of my work. The thing I always try to think about is remembering the spirit of the person critiquing my work. If I know them, I know that's not really how they meant that to sound. It helps a lot.

That was a brilliant post Bethy! Very well thought out, thank you so much for sharing it with us.

I've got to admit it--I love critiquing. One of the reasons is because I'm an analytical reader. I love to have something in my hands that I can pull to pieces, and its so easier to do it with other people's writing than my own, because I'm not so close to it. Another confession--that's one reason I subscribe to writing mags...

Second reason: I learn so much! When I'm not close to something I can see it for its real value, I can see mistakes, I can learn how to fix them, and I can then apply it to my own writing. Frankly, subconsciously I critique nearly everything I read, published or not. And I've learnt so many of the mistakes an author can make. And I still make them. (NOT so easy to apply what I've learnt!)

I've a wonderful friend who writes too, and for some time now we've swapped chapters of on-the-go manuscripts, critquing, not so much grammar, etc., but plot, character and storyline. For myself, it has opened my eyes to the technical side of creative writing. (I love it! It's so awesome how creativity and structure can coexist!) I have learnt so much, both from Beth's mistakes and her strong areas. Besides which, HER critiques help me write better stories.... always a good thing!

I don't have much trouble with criticism. When we first began critiquing each-other's stuff we'd inquire, 'Did anything sting?' I've always made it a point not to take criticism to heart, just to brain , so I very quickly invested in a thick skin. With Beth's donations it didn't come very dear... well worth it! *lol* (Doing it this way with a close friend also helps develop one's critiquing 'tone'... the right one!)