It happens to everyone, I think. We get an idea for something that "dances the line" of acceptability, especially for Christians. So I'm making this thread to post those ideas, and get feedback on how to deal with them properly, or whether to include them at all.

So here's mine; rape. My story takes place in a world where women are not respected at all, and in the begining of my story my main character is almost abused. I don't go into any gory details, but I've been wondering; should I include it at all? Nothing acually happens, but it could be a really touchy subject for some people. I could skirt around it, but it's important in creating mistrust and tension between her and another male character.

So I ask, what do ya'll think? And remember, this isn't just for me, ya'll can post your issues too.

I think that portraying a culture like the one you describe is very difficult, and the balance between description and assumption. You can communicate to your reader that something has occurred through implication, and this is the best route. Other than spoken sin and violence, there are very few evils that should be directly described.

It's the balance between to light and fluffy, and imposing the "weight of evil" on your reader. As Christians, we are to set are minds on things pure and holy, but you can tell a beautiful and holy story in the setting you describe if you handle it with care. My advice, get as many of your family members as you can to review your work with this specific goal in mind.

Remember, however, that your story is not to present a view of good and evil that is balanced in any way. We don't have to show the evil to present the good. If you really struggle with finding this balance, I suggest you read The Scarlet Letter. It deals with a similar topic without crossing any bounds. (In my opinion, which is very likely faulty.)

You shouldn't get too graphic of course, but I think it's okay, unless it doesn't affect the storyline in any way. I think it would be a good idea to have people review your story after you write it. Try to find people with different levels of tolerances for such things.

I agree with what everyone else has said. If it's an important part of your story, you should include it, but not go into graphic detail. As long as evil is portrayed as evil, and there aren't any unnecessary details, I don't have a problem with it.

That's exactly what we should all try for in our stories.

Thanks! That realy helps. And my story starts after the fact, so there'll be no description whatsoever, and it's implied that something happened, but it never really says what, though throughout the story you get a clearer idea of what happens. I'm not up to writing anything graphic *shudder*

Hmm, good point. It's because of upbringing. Boys are taught and observe girls and women being treated badly, and it's all the girls know. Been doing a lot of research, and that's how everything happens in our world too. Once behaviors have been bred in they're hard to get out.

I also have some "touchy subjects" in my story (Such as pre-marital pregnancies). I think I don't need to imply much more then the women telling someone (usually the man) that she is pregnant and making it known through out the story that they are not married.

But rape is kinda a different matter and I try my hardest to stay away from putting in my stories because I know I might put in too much information at moments. It's definitely harder than the "I'm pregnant" strategy.
Elisabeth

Christian author, Liz Curtis Higgs has a novel called Grace in Thine Eyes which is a sort-of adaptation/retelling of the story of Dinah in Genesis (the sister of Levi and Simeon whose rape inspired them to murder all the men in the town of Shechem as revenge). Never read it myself, but it seems to deal with the issue and I thought it might be useful to see how another Christian author handles it. Hope it helps.

Also, on the subject of touchy issues, I think it is important for Christians to write about them. The tendency of many Christians to not acknowledge them as if they didn't exist just results in the only portrayals of these very real and very serious issues being non-Christian ones. I think we'll all readily admit that there's a hurting world out there that needs to know that there is hope and there is healing. And not to insult allegories, but, let's face it, if a good allegory of the Gospel was all that was needed, evangelism would require nothing more than distributing copies of Pilgrim's Progress.

I hope I'm not coming off to strong on this; I don't mean to. But it is something I feel strongly about. One thing evident in Jesus' ministry here on earth was his willingness to relate to where people were at that time. I think there is a TREMENDOUS untapped potential for fiction (fantasy or not) written by Christians that reaches out to people's pain and conflict and offers hope of healing. Again, not meaning to ramble, but this is something I feel passionate about. PM me and I'll share with you some of the reasons that I feel as strongly about this as I do. I personally am praying for the day that a Christian author portrays a character struggling with homosexuality, seems plenty of nonbelieving authors are portraying it and not in a way that will help our world any.
Hope I haven't overstepped my bounds. Love, grace, and peace to you all.

In Christ,
Jordan

I don't think you've overstepped any bounds, Jordan! I totally agree with you on what you said!

ditto to almost everything everyone has posted.

I have had the same problem in dealing with the harems in my stories, and I've finally just decided ot to have any graphic scenes, etc. The type of people who would read most of my books, (simply because of themes and violence) would be mature enough to understand things without having them spelled out.

Christians need to deal with uncomfortable topics.

*sigh* So, I need help.

In this book that I'm writing, the vampire King has decided to have a bride. (At least in my books, the vampires are evil and don't sparkle.)

The problem is that (traditionally at least) the way for him to do this to a woman is a rather graphic process called a "Baptism of blood".

And...I have no idea how to handle this. I'm trying to stick to really old mythology, and not the freaky modern vampire lore, but I'm realizing that old fables are just as dark as the new ones. Possibly more.

Any suggestions here? This book IS adult fiction, but STILL...

Ooh... touchy subjects...
In Lightning Ranger an outlaw escapes into a princesses tower...
I don't describe anything. At all. It is all implied. But half the plot of the first part of the book is him coming back, night after night. We know they're in love from the beginning, so it's not a surprise when he's hiding out from his enemies that she accepts him but then she gets pregnant and he has to help her escape...
I wrote the whole thing out and it came out well but I wince every time I think about letting my mom read it because I wonder if it is something she would let me read. Talk about a touchy situation.

I had a similar situation with rape too, and it's a lot easier. In the Last Wizard Morgon's mother is raped by a wizard, which is how Morgon is born. But since it's all in the past, it's just an accepted fact, something everybody knows happened but don't talk about. Morgon's mother dies so then he just has to deal with the fact that he has a father for a wizard and it's never really discussed. Dostoevsky is brilliant at handling situations like that tactfully. There is so much depravity in his books but we're never subjected to the details, or anything to make us uncomfortable.

It is very difficult writing, especially being Christians, in a worldly, sinful world. Not to mention we, in ourselves, represent the entire title and life of the Christian in our actions and writings. It is good to keep things clean, but we also don't live in a happy-go-lucky world where nothing bad happens. There are people who are raped, murdered, abused, ect. and I think that sometimes we just have to tell it how it is. We can't fluff it up. We can't shelter ourselves from the real world. Now, I'm not saying you have to describe in graphic detail or anything, but just write it in a way that explains what you're trying to get across.

Well, if it's just throwing her into a pool of blood then hearing about it certainly wouldn't bother me at all. Of course, I don't want to know where they got that blood from or how long they've kept it.

No, that's not it. I'm not sure if you've read much vampire lore, but it's significantly more gruesome, and I wouldn't want a movie made out of it.:P

But it's also symbolic so I kind of need it to be described. *sigh*

Leave it to me to think literally. I haven't read much vampire lore, in that I feel like vampires even having lore seems a bit odd to me.

Well...if it's only graphic as far as violence goes, I think it could be pulled off as long as you keep the description pretty blunt and simple.

If you're talking about any other kind of graphic, then I'd alter the ritual.

It's really just violent, but...idk. I could see Hollywood taking it and making it dirty. And I personally, want my writing not even to have a hint of questionability.

So, I don't know.

Real men don't sparkle.

I like the way you put that Airianna.

Ooh, touchy subjects. I agree that there is a fine line. I think what you write depends on whom you are writing for. For example, you would not put gory detail in a book written for a two year old. In one of my stories there is a girl who is beaten often. I don't write the actual beating, but I make it clear that it was terrible. I don't like to read too much detail usually. I'm a visual person, and I can usually 'see' while I read.

Yeah, my best friend wants me to design a T-shirt with that on it for her Christmas present.

Back on topic, I'm a visual reader also, which is why I put so much emphasis on insuring you are portraying what you want your readers to see. Don't violate someone by forcing them to see extremely graphic scenes, but be sure to put enough detail so that visual readers don't sit there without mental images going through their mind as they read. Give them images that are less disturbing, but convey the point at the same time. My advice is to keep your eyes on Christ and the rest will fall in place. Sorry if that wasn't helpful.

Speaking of touchy subjects... I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to hold back when it comes to realism. However, I also believe that as a christian, I should hold myself to a certain standard. So if i'm writing a violent scene, I might not go into too much detail about the mess involved... say if someone was run through with a sword, lots of gross things can take place. So I would probably use some detail, but not shoot for a gory horror movie level of detail. Also.... in terms of language. There are some words I most definitely will not use. But what about the lesser of bad words... such as the "D" word (the other word for d a r n) or the name for a fatherless son that starts with "B" If those words were used, is that going to far? Would really like some input.

I really dislike it when I run across d*** in fiction/webmanga/etc. Makes me wince if for nothing else than the linguistic problems. And then I wouldn't want to show it to my friends 'cause I'd be embarrassed to recommend something with a misuse of a theological word in it.

The other word.... isn't nice... but I don't know if there's anything particularly wrong in using it. Particularly if it's accurate.

In everything, analyze whether or not it's really needed to communicate the point of the individual scene. Honestly, there are other ways you could communicate without using either word. Visuals are always better than dialogue.

Okay, I personally don't think there are any "lesser" words, but I see your point 6strings. I suppose for me it comes back to not having to give an account. I believe that the sacred calling of writing is similar to a pastor or elder (okay, that sounded wrong) in that the Lord will hold us accountable for what we have portrayed in our works to our readers.

I LOVE Horatio Hornblower! They are good books and really good movies (if you get the ones that edit out two 5 second scenes in the later movies). They are also very accurate in their historical representation, which means (as Britishmen) they use lots of D words and an occasional A. However, the historical accuracy doesn’t lessen the offense for me. Now, the one time the d word is used appropriately doesn’t bother me. It’s not so much the word, but the intent. What is the point in using the d word outside of its original context? Why is it necessary?

For me it my stance comes from not wanting to have to stand before the Lord and give an account for introducing the D word to Shawn (sorry sweetheart, you’re just the perfect example at the moment!) And as for the B word…My Mom used to be a veterinary technician and I’ve studied lots of her stuff. The B word is only used in text books now a days. The vets don’t even use it in its appropriate context because the b word no longer means that today. So, if they don’t use it where it is appropriate to use it, I don’t see why we need to. Everyone knows what you’re talking about if you just say ‘a female dog’. That’s how I look at it anyway.

Um, ::blush:: Airianna, AFAIK, the 'b' word that refers to a fatherless son is different than the one that refers to a female dog. (I find the latter pretty offensive 'cause it's insulting...)

::wishes she didn't know so many bad words::

Yeah, I know, I was just throwing that one in, even though we weren't talking about it. I, unfortunately, have heard the word to which you are referring, one too many times. I think it is extremely offensive, even more so than the b word to which I was referring. I just wasn't going to comment on this one originally.

Sorry if I confused everyone. And don’t worry Mel, few of us have the pleasure that Shawn does. Unfortunately our culture assails our ears on a regular basis. I hadn’t heard most of this stuff until I was 16. I don’t surround myself with people who use said words, but I do know some. God calls us to be a light to the world, in the world but not of it. I think, as you get older, that this means you have to deal with things you didn’t as a child/young person.

Yeah, I too hadn't been exposed to very much until after I was 16-17...which is probably best because then I am more resilient. Doesn't help, though, with my little mental rants of "why on earth does that author have to ruin a perfectly good story with the language?!?!?" and "why do they feel it's necessary" and that kind of thing...

Anyhow, my final perspective is: I find other interesting ways to get the point across without using offensive language. I have yet to see a situation where the language is actually necessary.

I understand your points here. And I agree there are other ways to get a point across than to use those words. This is going to be a touchy thing with me if I ever come to a point where I think the words may fit for a sense of realism of character however. But I believe we should all strive to be a good witness as well, so I think I can refrain from using them and find a more colorful way of expressing certain thoughts

Just like I don’t condemn Dekker for his use of such words, I wouldn’t you either 6strings. I think the Lord lays different things on all of our hearts, and while I don’t use such words for previously state reasons, that doesn’t mean you can’t if you disagree. I believe things some of you might not agree with, and vice versa. This is why I like Holy Worlds (see post in general discussions). We can all share ideas without getting defensive and turning a perfectly good discussion into a debate. Thanks for the discussion guys, it was very stimulating.

Yeah... I'm thinking that's a bridge I will have to cross when I come to it. If I come to a situation like that I will weigh out the words and alternatives I come up with to see what I think better suits the story.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Uh, glad to be an example. This was a really good discussion, by the way.

As to the topic at hand, I have been tempted over the years to put profanity in my books, particularly since it's difficult to get a book (at least a non-fantasy book) without profanity published in the mainstream market. However, I was inspired by how many classic old movies portrayed difficult subjects while remaining clean enough for children to see, including being free of profanity. I was also convicted by the Bible's admonition to keep our speech clean, and I have now resolved not to put profanity in my books.

That's really awesome to hear Jonathan!

I've resorted to making up curse words. That way if I feel that a character really would swear and I can't get around it, I just use a word that would have lots of fire in it in my world, but doesn't offend anyone here.

LOL! I was talking to a friend earlier, and she said, "If it's a word I wouldn't use around my mother, then I just won't write it."

I think there's a place to addressing touchy subjects in a Christ-honoring manner, as long as the subject meets 3 qualifications... (1) It is appropriate to your audience, (2) it is appropriate to your theme, and (3) it is appropriate to your stage in life.

What are you trying to say with this book? If you feel called to address a heavy subject to an audience that is ready to hear it, God be with you. But think carefully - is this subject something your audience should be dwelling on? Is it something that you, as the writer, should be filling your head with?

I will not deny that the "real world" has a lot of problems, all of which need to be addressed. But there are certain issues which I do not feel are appropriate for me to dwell on enough to write - I might also refrain from reading books that focus on them. Fiction is, in part, recreational. It is also incredibly emotionally involving. Therefore, I have to have standards.

Also, I have to ask myself - am I qualified to tackle this moral? Chances are, if it's something I shouldn't be dwelling on, I also don't have the experience and maturity to handle it properly.

In terms of language, I've found that most "mild" language feels superficial; it pulls me out of the story, so the story would be stronger without it. In terms of strong language, I refuse to write a word of it; however, I don't have a problem with narrative comments to the effect of "He swore" or "He muttered foully." You don't need to tell me what he swore; if you feel he needs to swear, just tell me that flat-out and don't detail his exact words.